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Re: [lojban] Two new gismu, "stomach" and "back of body". And a proposal for an updated method of generating gismu.
Digestive organ; {cutne} and {betfu} cover the other more or less, I
think?
Although working on a bunch of words for dorsal, ventral, etc, would
be pretty cool.
-Robin
On Tue, Aug 21, 2012 at 11:17:57AM -0400, Matt Arnold wrote:
> Would the "stomach" word be used for "ventral surfaces" or
> "digestive organ"?
>
> -Eppcott
>
> On Tue, Aug 21, 2012 at 11:07 AM, la gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> > Robin wanted those two new gismu and so I started preparing their sounding.
> >
> > At first I asked myself "Are those frequencies taken from Atlas of the
> > world true or correct? Are there any flaws in the method of generating
> > gismu from 6 languages?"
> >
> > So here is my new method.
> >
> > 1.At first I opened this wikipedia article<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_languages_by_number_of_native_speakers&oldid=508449846>.
> > Unfortunately Wikipedia just removed the data that we need in it's newer
> > revisions of the page.
> > 2.Write out the number of native (I'll call them L1) speakers of first
> > most common languages. Determine the number of L2 speakers as L2=(total
> > number of speakers - L1 speakers).
> > 3. In one special case we have L3 speakers.
> > 4. Determine the corrected frequency as =L1+L2 / 2 + L3 / 3
> > 5. Leave first 12 languages (I'll tell you later why 12)
> > 5. Convert them to fractions so that the sum=1.
> > 6.Therefore we get (3-letter ISO-codes of languages in the 1st column)
> >
> > l1 l2 l3 total cor.freq. fraction cmn 845 180 1025 935 0.246117
> > eng 375 375 750 812.5 0.213872 spa 329 61 390 359.5 0.09463 ara 232
> > 220 452 342 0.090024 hin 240 165 405 322.5 0.084891 ben 181 69 250
> > 215.5 0.056725 rus 144 106 250 197 0.051856 por 178 15 193 185.5
> > 0.048829 jap 122 1 123 122.5 0.032245 pun 109 0 109 109 0.028692
> > deu 90 28 118 104 0.027376 fra 68 52 120 94 0.024743 jav 85 0 85
> > 85 wu 77 0 77 77 mar 75 3 76.5 tel 70 5 75 72.5 vie 69
> > 0 69 69 1
> > 7.Now some general stuff. I stopped at French cuz it's a Romance language
> > similar to Poruguese and Spanish so it might shift the frequencies of
> > phonemes a bit.
> > 8.Punjabi and Bengali are no longer considered as variations of Hindi.
> >
> > 9.Now let's find etymologies for our gismu.
> > I can recommend the following links (warning! unsorted)
> > for transliterating Arabic script robsmart.co.uk » Transliteration again
> > … now complete<http://robsmart.co.uk/2007/02/02/transliteration-again-now-complete/> punjabi
> > dic stomach | Meaning of stomach | Punjabi Dictionary | iJunoon<http://www.ijunoon.com/punjabi/dictionary.aspx?word=stomach> punjabi
> > dic Punjabi(Gurmukhi,Shahmukhi) to English Dictionary:: ACTDPL Punjabi
> > University, Patiala <http://dic.learnpunjabi.org/default.aspx> no
> > comments Google Translate<http://translate.google.com/?source=osdd#auto/hi/she%20intends%2C%0Athey%20intend.>
> > Hindi stomach meaning in Hindi and English - Shabdkosh.com | शब्दकोश.कॉम<http://www.shabdkosh.com/translate/stomach/stomach_meaning_in_Hindi_English>
> > Hindi English to Hindi Dictionary and Translation<http://dict.hinkhoj.com/english2hindi.php>
> > Hindi Hindi English Dictionary Online<http://s371741603.online.de/hindi-english/index.php?input=stomach&trans=Translate&direction=AU>
> > Bengali stomach meaning in Bengali and English - Shabdkosh.com |
> > অভিধান.कॉम<http://www.shabdkosh.com/bn/translate/stomach/stomach_meaning_in_Bengali_English>
> > Bengali stomach - A Bengali-English dictionary<http://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/romadict.pl?query=stomach&table=biswas-bengali>intend
> > translation Portuguese | English-Portuguese dictionary | Reverso Collins<http://dictionary.reverso.net/english-portuguese/>
> > Japanese Find words - Denshi Jisho<http://jisho.org/words?jap=&eng=stomach&dict=edict&romaji=on>
> > German am going to : Dictionary / Wörterbuch (BEOLINGUS, TU Chemnitz)<http://dict.tu-chemnitz.de/dings.cgi?lang=en&service=deen&opterrors=0&optpro=0&query=am+going+to&iservice=&comment=&email=>
> > audio samples forvo.com
> >
> >
> > 10.Some dictionaries contain audio samples.
> > 11.Notice that Punjabi, Bengali and Hindi (together with Urdu) are quite
> > similar. You usually should get the same sounding.
> > 12. So prepare the sounding using standard methods of it's adapting to
> > lojban phonology as described in the CLL.
> > 13.Now let's use scoreGismu perl app.
> >
> > For "stomach" we get
> > cmn vei 0.253388 eng beli 0.22019 spa bientre 0.097425 ara muada
> > 0.092683 hin pet 0.087398 ben pet 0.058401 rus jeludyk 0.053388 por
> > bariga 0.050271 jap xara 0.033198 pun pet 0.028692 deu magen 0.028184
> > fra vontr 0.025474
> > With first 4 languages it outputs
> > *vreli velti venli velbi* 0.691286 (rating) With all 12 languages it
> > outputs *vetli* 0.535
> > (rating)
> >
> >
> > I'd choose {vetli} as it's similar to Chinese vei, English belly, Indian
> > "pet" and Romance "ventr-"
> >
> >
> > For "back of human body" we get
> > cmn beiji 0.253388 eng bak 0.22019 spa espalda 0.097425 ara vyxra
> > 0.092683 hin pic 0.087398 ben pic 0.058401 rus spin 0.053388 por
> > kostas 0.050271 jap se 0.033198 pun pic 0.028692 deu riuk 0.028184 fra
> > dos 0.025474
> > Top score is bekpi bajdi 0.50684 4 langs bekpi 0.4697 12 langs
> > I'd choose {bekpi} which reminds me of Chinese bei, English back, Indian
> > pic and Russian sPIna.
> >
> > Robin approved them several hours ago in chat but I'm free to suggestions.
> >
> > *Notes.*
> > Still 6 languages is enough. 4 languages are not enough. More than 12
> > languages is a useless waste of time (but If you can collect translations
> > please do).
> >
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