Well, I agree that it's comfortable that most people are familiar with latin characters. But that simply mirrors the fact that Europe/US had been very succesful in spreading their ideas and culture to the rest of the world pu ze'ucaku by means of their greater economic, political and cultural dominance (= cultural and economic colonialism). McDonalds, CocaCola, Apple and Hollywood-produced movies are integrated in an extremely wide range of cultures too nowadays. Lojbanic culture has the potential of becoming something else than an extension of the euro-american global monoculture I think, to create something of their own. The reason why lojbanists doesn't critize latin script on these grounds might be something for a sociologist to analyze. But until we've got a succesful ortography, that most lojbanists could agree on, I think latin characters will do just fine.mu'omi'e jongausibSo I don't necessarily think
Skickat från min iPhonelarlermorna does indeed have (some) system to the letters -- for example, the mirroring of the voice with their unvoice equivalents. But there have been plenty of other lojban orthographies, too. For instance see http://www.lojban.org/--tiki/Original+lojban+ Or for that matter, read about ALL the various attempts at alternate orthographies. http://www.lojban.org/tiki/orthography Alternate+Orthographies Quite frankly, the advantage of using an existing orthography that most people in the world are already familiar with (which is used by an EXTREMELY wide range of cultures all over the world) always far outweighs people's resistance to having to learn an entirely new orthography, so proposals always fizzle out.--gejyspaOn Thu, Nov 22, 2012 at 3:56 AM, Sebastian <so.co...@gmail.com> wrote:
...Next question is: phonemic or ideograms? The advantage of phonemic characters is they're not so many. I like "larlermorna", it looks great and seems to be pretty easy to use, but it hasn't the systematically phonetic system as tengwar has.Ideograms does not take up as much textual space as phonemes does and they might look cool (I think the visual impression really matters). And it's probably possible to construct them intelligently, as charlicopter suggested to represent information about lojbanic structure (arity (place structure), abstractions, descriptors, modifiers etc), by means of "stroke length, angle, curvature, dots, rotation/orientation, etc."Toki pona got their own set of hieroglyphs, so why not lojban?Negative: There are ba'e a lot of them, which need to be constructed (toki pona got 123, lojban need at least 1800 + complex lujvo forms; and what about fu'ivla?). Phonetic information may get lost in a ideogram system, if not each character also contain all the phonemes of each word, but then the characters would be fairly complex.mu'omi'e jongausibSkickat från min iPhoneLatin orthography has the advantage of many people in the world know about it, it's being used a lot in scientific contexts, it's compatible with ASCII, etc.Negative: Latin letters are not cultural neutral, they've got history and are a part of West's cultural "colonialism" or what you would to call it.There is no ortography associated with natural language that is cultural neutral, therefore I think it's a great idea to construct a completely new set of characters, with no history (yet).When constructing this character set you may, or may not, be inspired by existing writing systems like hangul, japanese, devanagari, arabic etc etc., but I think the result should be something completely different.Tengwar has the advantage of not being so real-world cultural biased, but it's still not uniquely associated with lojban. I think lojban shouldn't borrow cultural signs from other, fictional or non-fictional, but have their own lojbanic (global) cultural system.Next question is: phonemic or ideograms? The advantage of phonemic characters is they're not so many. I like
Skickat från min iPhoneHow does the current standard orthography not meet the aims of your proposal?stevo--On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 6:43 PM, charli...@gmail.com <lanter...@gmail.com> wrote:
Greetings everyone,
This is my first time visiting the forums...
My curiosity currently lies in the possibility of a written system that could be developed around Lojban that respects its logical nature.
As far as I can tell in my rudimentary beginnings as a student of Lojban: The language is designed around phonetics in a similar way to Japanese. by that, I mean that the language uses predictable and consistent combinations of vowel and consonant phonetics in the structure of the constituent word-forms.
Preposition: In written Lojban, what if you used a character system similar to Japanese hiragana and katakana: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katakana & http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiragana
Japanese Katakana and Hiragana are based on characters which hail from ancient cultural influences, but what if you started fresh and designed characters around some kind of logical analysis of Lojbanic structure, syntax, logic, etc. such that the characters are themselves always internally consistent and logical? Pictorally speaking, you have many variables to draw upon: stroke length, angle, curvature, dots, rotation/orientation, etc. certainly as many variables as are needed to accurately represent the phonetics, syntax etc. of the language. In this way, entire gismu might have a chance of being reduced to single characters which LOOK and FLOW as logically as they behave.
Thoughts?
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