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Re: [lojban] Quantifier exactness



...Actually, both of the above situations are the same. {ci prenu cu zvati lo zdani} when 5 are present is an "inexact quantifier", but it can be sneakily worked around by playing with the universe of discourse (i.e. we're excluding them from the discussion). There's no such workaround in the first example, because the quantifier range is explicit.

mi'e la latro'a mu'o

On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 10:51 PM, Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com> wrote:
Not {su'o}, no. Instead it's more like "at least one, and probably about one." As for the example, trivial examples don't really help (since the issue could basically be left up in the air and trivial cases would still be resolvable in context), while universe-of-discourse-based examples seem pedantic at best.

mi'e la latro'a mu'o

On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 7:49 PM, Felipe Gonçalves Assis <felipeg.assis@gmail.com> wrote:
I don't understand what you mean by "inexact quantifers". Do you mean that {pa}
should be understood as {su'o}? I don't see why that is necessary, or why you
would need such a convoluted example to exemplify the different interpretations.

mu'o
mi'e .asiz.

On 6 January 2013 15:59, Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com> wrote:
> The issue of quantifier exactness has come up a few times already. The most
> recent example was "context and precision" which was forked by aionys from
> another thread. You can look at that thread On IRC today, playing around
> with functions we stumbled upon a combination of a sentence and situation
> such that one stance on quantifier exactness makes the sentence false while
> the other makes it true. Here's the setup:
>
> There are 4 people, mi, do, la alis, la bab; the latter two are grouped
> under {lo re prenu}.
> I like la alis a little bit, but hate la bab.
> You like la alis and la bab a lot.
> Now consider
> {mi zmadu do lo ni ce'u nelci pa lo re prenu}
> (If the ni confuses you, pretend it's ka, as that part's not important here.
> We can talk about ka-ni elsewhere.)
>
> If quantifiers are exact, this is true. {do nelci pa lo re prenu} is
> completely false (you like two of them, not one), while {mi nelci pa lo re
> prenu} is true, if only a little bit, so I do exceed you in that aspect.
> Note that the CLL says this is how the language works, but if you look at
> the previous discussions you'll find that this is clumsy fairly frequently.
> If quantifiers are not exact, this is false or at least false-ish, since {ro
> da poi me lo re prenu zo'u do zmadu mi lo ni ce'u nelci da}.
>
> I thought this example warranted discussion primarily because it does not
> arise because of annoying, semi-ontological issues related to the universe
> of discourse. Instead there's only two people being quantified over, but the
> two interpretations still differ with respect to this (relatively simple)
> sentence.
>
> .i do ma jinvi
>
> .i mi'e la latro'a mu'o
>
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