Re: [lojban] request for a new gismu: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Episodic_memory

[Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com>]

s/completely/requiring complete/

On Tue, Jan 8, 2013 at 12:43 AM, Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com> wrote:

This issue is controversial in general; generally most people are not in favor of letting lujvo completely go wild into cimjvo territory, but also find that completely compositionality results in lujvo being useless. The actual position on that scale varies from Lojbanist to Lojbanist; tsani and I are toward the jvajvo end of the spectrum for the most part. 

That said, in this particular case using {lifmo'i} or similar is suboptimal precisely because it has a compositional meaning that is actually useful, having to do with remembering facts about an experience as opposed to remembering the experience per se.

mi'e la latro'a mu'o

On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 10:27 PM, MorphemeAddict <lytlesw@gmail.com> wrote:

The semantics of lujvo don't have to be compositional at all; it's just nice when they are. No need for a new gismu here. 

stevo

On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 4:15 PM, Jacob Errington <nictytan@gmail.com> wrote:

The problem is that basing these lujvo on {morji} is compositionally
wrong on a semantic level. The semanics of lujvo should be
compositional as much as is possible. However, if we were to redefine
morji, which is likely never going to happen, into something like "x1
has memory of / remembers x2 (su'u)" then you can probably derive both
current-morji and mojrli'i from that. The fact that the redefinition
isn't going to happen is what motivates the creation of a new gismu.

.i mi'e la tsani mu'o

On 7 January 2013 15:34, Sebastian Fröjd <so.cool.ogi@gmail.com> wrote:
> Why not just construct lujvos from broda morji and define the new lujvos to
> get this exact distinction?
>
>
> 2013/1/7 Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com>
>>
>> The first one is "I remember that I kissed her"; you're remembering it as
>> a fact, not necessarily something that you can go back and re-experience.
>> You could have been blacked out and told after the fact and still remember
>> the fact without remembering the experience. This is part of why I think
>> this distinction is important.
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 4:44 AM, v4hn <me@v4hn.de> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jan 06, 2013 at 11:55:01PM -0800, la gleki wrote:
>>> > 1. "i remember kissing her"
>>>
>>> .i mi morji lodu'u pu ca'o cinba ko'a
>>>
>>> > 2. "i remember that Lincoln was once a president of the US".
>>>
>>> .i mi morji lodu'u la .linken. puzu co'i merko jatna
>>>
>>>
>>> Which concept are you missing?
>>> I don't get at all, what you're talking about.
>>> At least, you could try to construct lojban examples of usage
>>> for your proposal..
>>>
>>>
>>> v4hn
>>
>>
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