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Re: [lojban] {makau} {mokau}

{djuno} bothers me, because there's two different useful things it should mean. There's a djuno-ka definition, where the speaker knows the du'u that is created by applying djuno2 to djuno3, and there's a djuno-du'u definition, where the speaker knows djuno2, which pertains to djuno3 in some way. The former is in some sense "incomplete"; {lo se djuno} is not a complete bridi syntactically but is not a "fact" semantically either. The latter is redundant, and could just as easily be done with srana. (That is, {mi djuno lo du'u broda noi srana ko'a} == {mi djuno lo du'u broda kei ko'a} and {mi djuno lo srana be ko'a} == {mi djuno fi ko'a}).

That said, simply disregarding djuno3 and leaving djuno2 lets you use jai hackery to obtain the ka version and srana hackery to obtain the gimste version. Of course all of this is just tinkering that won't be implemented anyways.

mi'e la latro'a mu'o

On Sat, Feb 2, 2013 at 11:06 AM, Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, Feb 2, 2013 at 12:46 PM, Jacob Errington <nictytan@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> {djuno2} is actually a ka, but we pretend that it isn't because the gimste
> made its definition clumsy to use that way. Indeed, the djuno2 is a property
> of the djuno3.

We could say that "djuno" is a sumti raising predicate, in the
linguistic sense of "raising"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raising_(linguistics) since its x3 is the
semantic argument of an embedded predicate. The same can be said of
almost all predicates that take a ka-argument. (There are a couple of
oddball predicates that the gi'uste says should take ka but are not in
this category.)

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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