Re: [lojban] strange behaviour of {cortu}

On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 7:50 AM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:

On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 7:46 AM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:

On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 7:32 AM, la gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday, February 8, 2013 5:26:19 PM UTC+3, .asiz. wrote:
What is exactly the problem with {mi cortu lo bekpi}?

that bekpi2 is not filled.

Yes it is. Context is everything. Since {lo bekpi} is {lo se cortu}, it must be {lo berti be lo cortu}.

Sorry. {lo bekpi be lo cortu}. I don't know why I said berti.

The only way it could be a back belonging to an individual /other/ than {lo cortu} is if that individual is an empath, and even then it wouldn't be {ko'a cortu lo bekpi be ko'e}, but {ko'a lifri lonu ko'e cortu lo bekpi}.

Also, technically, there's no such thing as an "unfilled" place. All places which are not /explicitly/ filled are filled with {zo'e}, and sometimes {ce'u} in the case of abstractions.

On 8 February 2013 04:21, la gleki <gleki.is...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Friday, February 8, 2013 10:48:26 AM UTC+4, Pierre Abbat wrote:
>>
>> On Thursday, February 07, 2013 21:18:13 la gleki wrote:
>> > Many are speaking these days about internal place structure of brivla
>> > (relations between djuno2 and djuno3 is one example) which has been
>> > probably inspired by gua\spi.
>> >
>> > I just found another example, a little more interesting.
>> >
>> > {cortu} x1 hurts/feels pain/hurt at locus x2.
>> >
>> > What this brivla should really look like is
>> > {ko'a cortu lo broda be vo'a}
>> > e.g.
>> > {mi cortu lo stedu be mi}
>> > {mi cortu lo tuple be mi}
>> >
>> > But if we remove one of {mi} in any example this won't lead to any
>> > ambiguity. Indeed, where can i feel pain if not in some part of me?
>> > Of course such technologies as described in Avatar film might raise this
>> > question again but even then the avatar controlled by you would be a
>> > part
>> > of your double body.
>>
>> This is called a twiddler, as "mi cortu lo birka be do" is nonsensical in
>> the
>> same way that "I twiddle your thumbs" is. Similarly:
>> .i mi darxi do lo birka be fo'a lo trixe be ko'a
>> .i mi sanli lo loldi lo jamfu be do
>> See http://kith.org/logos/words/lower/t.html .
>
>
> Thanks for the link. The "problem" appeared when i tried to translate the
> following sentence from Tatoeba.
>
> "My back hurts."
>
> If we assume that back is {bekpi} (cuz Robin needed a gismu for it)
> then we have three options.
>
> 1. mi cortu lo bekpi
> 2. cortu lo bekpi be mi
> 3. mi cortu lo bekpi be mi
>
> The third solution is verbose and therefore doesn't reflect relations
> between sumti in a nice way.
> I guess Lojban is just unable to express this in a more concise way.
> May be
> 4. bekpi je selcortu mi ?
>
> I wish I could bind {bekpi} and {selcortu} with {du} but I can't.
>
>
>>
>> Pierre
>> --
>> I believe in Yellow when I'm in Sweden and in Black when I'm in Wales.
>>
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On 8 February 2013 04:21, la gleki <gleki.is...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Friday, February 8, 2013 10:48:26 AM UTC+4, Pierre Abbat wrote:
>>
>> On Thursday, February 07, 2013 21:18:13 la gleki wrote:
>> > Many are speaking these days about internal place structure of brivla
>> > (relations between djuno2 and djuno3 is one example) which has been
>> > probably inspired by gua\spi.
>> >
>> > I just found another example, a little more interesting.
>> >
>> > {cortu} x1 hurts/feels pain/hurt at locus x2.
>> >
>> > What this brivla should really look like is
>> > {ko'a cortu lo broda be vo'a}
>> > e.g.
>> > {mi cortu lo stedu be mi}
>> > {mi cortu lo tuple be mi}
>> >
>> > But if we remove one of {mi} in any example this won't lead to any
>> > ambiguity. Indeed, where can i feel pain if not in some part of me?
>> > Of course such technologies as described in Avatar film might raise this
>> > question again but even then the avatar controlled by you would be a
>> > part
>> > of your double body.
>>
>> This is called a twiddler, as "mi cortu lo birka be do" is nonsensical in
>> the
>> same way that "I twiddle your thumbs" is. Similarly:
>> .i mi darxi do lo birka be fo'a lo trixe be ko'a
>> .i mi sanli lo loldi lo jamfu be do
>> See http://kith.org/logos/words/lower/t.html .
>
>
> Thanks for the link. The "problem" appeared when i tried to translate the
> following sentence from Tatoeba.
>
> "My back hurts."
>
> If we assume that back is {bekpi} (cuz Robin needed a gismu for it)
> then we have three options.
>
> 1. mi cortu lo bekpi
> 2. cortu lo bekpi be mi
> 3. mi cortu lo bekpi be mi
>
> The third solution is verbose and therefore doesn't reflect relations
> between sumti in a nice way.
> I guess Lojban is just unable to express this in a more concise way.
> May be
> 4. bekpi je selcortu mi ?
>
> I wish I could bind {bekpi} and {selcortu} with {du} but I can't.
>
>
>>
>> Pierre
>> --
>> I believe in Yellow when I'm in Sweden and in Black when I'm in Wales.
>>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "lojban" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to lojban+un...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>
>

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--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )