Re: [lojban] Should I quit learning Lojban?

Analogizing isn't encoding. Lojban is basically the language of logic, which, for all sorts of historical reasons, is SAE, that is, English, by and large. If you want something radically different, try Hopi or Menominee (Whorf's favorites). Still, Lojban's vocabulary is not an English relex (fairly obviously) nor is its basic grammar conceptually like English. It just is that the patterns of things turning up is more or less the same, {lo du'u} and "that" for example (which just turned up in something today, not perhaps a typical case). They are relatively easy to learn -- or would be if rationally taught (but a word list and a pumping technique combined with a reference grammar is not rational teaching).

From: shanoxilt <osiris_hades_deathland@hotmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Cc: John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2013 2:11 PM
Subject: Re: [lojban] Should I quit learning Lojban?

In fact, almost none of the really complex pieces of Lojban are actually needed and those that are are easily analogized to familiar patterns in English.

But if I'm just going to use Lojban as encoded English, what's the point of learning it?

Unfortunately, there has not been until now a decent primer -- or even a really bad one, so the process of learning what you really need and what is window dressing or advanced work has to be by trial and error. Using the beginners list is a good idea in that people on it tend to be at a lower level and still learning rudiments -- for all they do try to fly too early. Folks on this list tend to be a bit better and also terribly fond of esoterica -- not good role models, in short.

I've noticed this. :\

From: la gleki <gleki.is...@gmail.com>
To: loj...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2013 9:24 AM
Subject: Re: [lojban] Should I quit learning Lojban?

On Saturday, April 20, 2013 6:03:05 PM UTC+4, Betsemes wrote:

On Sat, Apr 20, 2013 at 9:38 AM, la gleki <gleki.is...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Mnemosyne is more robust and feature-rich while still looking clean. I
>> only complained about a single flaw, but now it's fixed and I'm ready
>> to import the whole of jbovlaste into it sorted by descending
>> frequency (that thread was a godsend).
>
> oh wait, i'll upload another freq dic now.

Thank you for the warning. I'd regret it if I had already imported it.
Could you tell us when your work on these lists is finished?

It is finished (see the last message that i sent 40 minutes ago in that thread). It is finished at least how i understand it. I checked all the words sorted by frequency till No 4043 and then added the rest of the words from jbovlaste. For me 4043 words are enough both for flashcards and MultiLing. Anyway word No 4043 had absolute frequency of only 11 so estimation error was likely to be high.

However, notice that it has cmavo clusters like {lonu} etc. I think those who learn lojban must be familiar with most frequent cmavo clusters as well even though their meaning can be directly derived from their components.

P.S. au do ca'o jmina lo frili je sampu be do jufra la tatoebas

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+un...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.