Re: [lojban] Robin retry: commands.

[Betsemes <betsemes@gmail.com>]

On Sun, May 5, 2013 at 3:18 PM, MorphemeAddict <lytlesw@gmail.com> wrote:
> In USA military, legally even requests, unless specifically stated as
> optional, are considered orders, and must be obeyed. If you believe in that
> paradigm.

We are getting off topic. I should have used the expression
"psychological authority" instead of "true authority". What we are
talking about is how the commander feels when giving a command. It
depends to a great extent on the psychological makeup of the one
giving the command. Whether or not he is backed up by an
organizational machine is irrelevant.

If I understand {ga'i} correctly, it marks the referent to be of lower
rank. I don't think this is appropriate to mark it as a command.

{le'o}, according to jbovlaste is aggressiveness. If the commander
feels the need to be aggressive when giving commands, that hints to
some kind of inner shortcoming, so that he feels he needs to give the
command some additional force to compensate; and that makes it, in my
opinion, not a universal way to mark a "ko-bridi" as a command.

{e'i} is "feeling constraint" according to jbovlaste. According to the
Merrian-Webster dictionary (sorry, I'm not an English-native),
"constraint" is:

1
a : the act of constraining
b : the state of being checked, restricted, or compelled to avoid or
perform some action <the constraint and monotony of a monastic life —
Matthew Arnold>
c : a constraining condition, agency, or force : check <put legal
constraints on the board's activities>
2
a : repression of one's own feelings, behavior, or actions
b : a sense of being constrained : embarrassment

This seems to be the way the one receiving the command should feel,
not the commander's.

According to jbovlaste, {e'o} means "attitudinal: request - negative
request.". This doesn't look like a feeling, more like an intention;
the speaker's intention to make a request. There might be a plethora
of different feelings attached to this intention depending on the one
making the request. This is what we need to mark a "ko-bridi" as a
command. We need to clearly state the "ko-bridi" is a command.

I'm no expert here, so I may be wrong, but my understanding on "ko
broda" is it means "make {ko broda} true", either as a request, or as
a command. The CLL makes a request explicit with "e'o ko broda".

What about "e'onai ko broda"? {e'onai} means "negative request"
according to jbovlaste. So what is a negative request? My naive
interpretation:

e'onai ko broda
negative request, make "ko broda" true
this is not a request, make "ko broda" true
this is an order, make "ko broda" true

The experts here can explain why I am wrong....

...or maybe why they have not noticed this before, in case I'm correct.

mu'o mi'e betsemes

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