Re: [lojban] mi bacru tcidu la ko'a marji lo rectu

For a variety of reasons, this turns out to be one of the hardest lessons in logic and even old pros screw up on it even when they are being careful (as I shall probably demonstrate before this is over, and may have already). We start with the situation where "The Red Pony" is the title of a book {lu le xunre cmaxirma li'u sinxa lo cukta}, so the referent of that _expression_ is the book {la'e lu le xunre cmaxirma li'u cukta}. Note that the referent of "The Red Pony" would normally be a red pony, so this is an odd case, hence the introduction. Now we get to {lu ko'a marji lo rectu li'u} which would ordinary stand for the sentence "He is made of meat". From what goes on around this discussion, I gather that this sentence is again being used as the name of something -- a book again? If that is so, then the argument does indeed go through just as you claim -- and I worry a bit about what {la'o} does (Ah, it does not quote first, so no problem). But in the absence of the special use here, {lu ko'a marji lo rectu li'u} refers to the enclosed sentence, so {lo'e lu ko'a marji lo rectu li'u} is just that sentence and so a truth value. All this argues for different quotes for different purposes, but that would mean a clutter of quotes as well as the other clutters of trivia in the language, so skip that. In short, you are right, given the context. And {la'o} is wrong because it is restricted to non-Lojban expressions anyhow.

From: Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 2:24 PM
Subject: Re: [lojban] mi bacru tcidu la ko'a marji lo rectu

While I don't deny that a la'o construction works fine, I'm not sure why my version works any less than the example 10.3 in chapter 6 of the CLL, I expect you will assert the main difference is that the one is a string quoting a sumti, and the other a string quoting a bridi, but I assert that a string is a string is a string, and the referent of it is always something with that tag(name). This is fundamentally different that say, "la'e 'di'u" which is usually taken to mean approx. "lo nu go'i" or "lo go'i" or "ri" or..., well pretty much a lot of vague somethings....

--gejyspa

On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 11:03 AM, John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com> wrote:

Alas, that gives a reference to Truth or Falsity, since the referent of the quoted sentence is a truth value. It's not clear what was intended.

From: Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 9:32 AM
Subject: Re: [lojban] mi bacru tcidu la ko'a marji lo rectu

lo nu galfi lu ko'a marji lo rectu li'u lo cmene na cumki lo nu lidne jmina zo la .i do pu xusra lo du'u do tcidu da noi se cmene lu la ko'a marji li'u zi'e noi se ciska fi lo rectu zo'o .i ko pilno lu la'e lu ko'a marji lo rectu li'u li'u fi'o se basti ku

It's not possible to change "ko'a marji lo rectu" to a name by simply prepending "la". You asserted you were reading something called "la ko'a marji" (His Material)

which was written on meat! Use "la'e lu ko'a marji lo rectu li'u" instead.

--gejyspa

On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 7:14 PM, lomicmenes <lomicmenes@gmail.com> wrote:
coi

.i mi bacru tcidu la ko'a marji lo rectu fi'e la teris.bisyn. fi'o fanva fe'u la pier.abat.
.i le vreji

.i xu lo mi selba'u cu drani

mu'o mi'e lomicmenes
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