On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 4:51 PM, Анатолий Гашев
<volishavas@gmail.com> wrote:
I don't worry just about the case. But I want to know precise distinction between using {le} and {lo}. Yes, I'm Russian, but it doesn't mean anything in the way of Lojban.
From http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section%3A+gadri I understood {lo} is anything, and {le} is {lo} that I have in my mind in the moment of speaking. For example,
mi ba terve'u lo karce - cuz right now I don't have in my mind image of my future car I'll want, but
mi ca ca'a ponse le karce
And if you're going to say that using {mi ca ca'a ponse lo karce} is perfectly well, then I might ask why even {le} exists in Lojban.
{lo} can have a specific reference, but doesn't need to. Whatever is
referenced with {lo} must be something that satisfies the x1 of the
internal selbri.
{le} must always have a specific reference.
Whatever is referenced with {le} can satisfy the x1 of the internal
selbri, but doesn't have to.
You can't call a dog that looks very bear-like {lo cribe}, but you can call it {le cribe}.
The difference is that {lo} means it /actually is/ whatever you're calling it. {lo karce} is actually a car, {lo cribe} actually is a bear, while {le} merely means that you are describing a specific thing as that, whether or not it actually is.
If you don't know if someone is a man or a woman, you can call that person {le ninmu} even if it turns out that's a man, but you can't call that person {lo ninmu}. (For anyone who's seen old SNL, Pat is a great example of this.)
суббота, 22 июня 2013 г., 3:54:34 UTC+6 пользователь aionys написал:
On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 2:04 PM, Анатолий Гашев
<volis...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi! If I want to say "I have a car. The car is white.":
(I'm interested only in differences between {le} and {lo}.)
1. with {le}: mi ponse le karce .i le karce cu blabi
2. with {lo}: mi ponse lo karce .i lo karce cu blabi
I think the first choice is better. Am I right?
Let me put it this way: You're not wrong. It's perfectly fine to use {le} instead of {lo}, but I wouldn't myself say it's better to. I also wouldn't say it's worse to.
As long as the thing you're talking about can be the x1 of whatever you're using to describe it (i.e. something you are calling {lo ve klama} must be a means of transportation), {lo} is never wrong, so when in doubt, use {lo}.
пятница, 21 июня 2013 г., 17:26:12 UTC+6 пользователь .arpis. написал:
{le} is what you say when you have a particular thing in mind or when you want to indicate that the thing you're talking about isn't necessarily a {broda}; {lo} is what you say whenever you don't want to indicate the previous fact. Most people use {le} for "the", but I think this is malgli.
mi'a got a request to explain the difference between {lo} and {le} with good examples from English. The person who is asking for that is not satisfied with what is described in BPFK sections of
lojban.org. Please help.
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mu'o mi'e .aionys.
.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )