Re: [lojban] Introduction to Lojban. How to quickly create sentences

On Sat, Feb 1, 2014 at 1:50 AM, Wuzzy <almikes@aol.com> wrote:

An interesting project.

But, oh god, why Google Docs? I hate this shit.

Because it's the only online presentation tool with commenting and possibility to export to at least PowerPoint format.

Anyways. To all newbies: Don’t trust this document, it has a couple of
mistakes and is full of oversimplifications. But yeah, that’s the
problem with quick introductions.

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“mi tavla do pa lo skina je lo xrula”
This text is not grammatical.

Fixed.

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“i pei do tugni ?” is NOT “Do you agree?”. First mistake: Lojban does
not known the question mark.

Question marks are just ignored. Without punctuation the stucture of the text looks alien.

Remember this an introduction to Lojban,
not an introduction to weird alternative experimental orthographies.

Second mistake: The word “pei” is far fetched here. Actually it’s a
question for emotion.

Really? Then please explain what emotion is asked when saying a more precise {je'upei}.

But the English is clearly a simple yes/no
question.
So why not “xu”?
“i xu do tugni” would be much better.

----

Also the slides are full of oversimplifications. Okay, not surprising
for a short introduction. But these oversimplifications are wrong and
misleading.

Where else?

“vanci coi la alis” = “Good evening, Alice.”
This is a bit far fetched, I think. This may be true for this very
context, but newbies may be lead to thinking this could be somehow
generalized. The text does not lose a way about the implications.

Far fetched where? I don't understand what's wrong.

First, there are no such things as verbs and nouns in Lojban!

Please explain what are verbs and nouns in general. And whether those terms are logical at all. My belief is that they are not.

And if you start teaching newbies such terms as "sumti", "tanru" and "sumtcita" instead of intuitive "verbs", "compound verbs" and "prepositions" ... you'll get the current community of geeks. Most people are just frightened of those lojbanic terms.

What you
are actually refering to is a completely different word class, a
brivla, in English we could call it “relation”.

“lo nei” = “oneself”
Oh boy. Translating this with “oneself” is only correct in the context
of this example. But it can’t be generalized.

There are some other oversimplifications.

Perhaps it is a good idea to put a warning on the first slide that this
thing is a radical oversimplification of Lojban. Links to other
learning resources (except the wiki) would be useful.

----

Why do you introduce “mi'ai”, an experimental cmavo? I don’t think it
is a good idea to introduce experimental stuff before even the basics
are tought.

Because otherwise we'd have to confess "There is no English "we" in Lojban. Yes, Lojban is logical and English "we" has a transparent meaning but Lojban lacks it for an unknown reason."

----

Normally, I would have edited this document right away without
complaining, just improving stuff.

See the license? You can copy it and fork it and export it to at least PowerPoint format and the convert using LibreOffice to what you need.

But since this is on Google Docs and
Google Docs does not export the file to an open AND editable format like
OpenDocument, I am not willing to edit it. :-(

--
Wuzzy
XMPP: Wuzzy2@jabber.ccc.de
E-Mail: wuzzy2@mail.ru

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