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Re: [lojban] ti'enai


On Sat, Apr 19, 2014 at 1:54 PM, v4hn <me@v4hn.de> wrote:

The scale of {ba'a} always refers to an experience.
Either in the expected future, the present or the past.

The future/present/past of the ba'a scale is the time when the sppeaker gets the evidence for what they're saying, not the time when whatever it is they are talking about happens.  http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section%3A+Evidentials

So it is possible to use "ba'a" to describe past events in which the speaker did not participate (as in "I expect you had a good time at the party yeaterday", I don't have confirmation yet, but I expect you will be confirming it) or "ba'a nai" to talk about something that will happen in the future ("I remember he will be leaving soon"). "ba'a cu'i" can also be used to indicate that the speaker is realizing something as they speak, not only to indicate that they are currently experiencing what they are describing. 


{ti'e} on the other hand tags an utterance as hearsay, possibly
with a focus on the uncertain truth value of the statement.
{ti'enai} then implies "grounded" knowledge pe'i.
So (pe'i) it would be reasonable to say {ti'enai li pa li pa te sumji li re},
whereas the same sentence tagged with {ba'anai} sounds weird.

Perhaps that case is too simple to tag with "ba'a nai" because presumably the speaker knows how to add one plus one and doesn't need to rely on memory to know it's two, but then someone may say "ba'a nai li no sinso li pai" because they remember it from having studied it even though they have no other evidence that that is the case.

"ti'e nai" would mean "first hand knowledge" and "ba'a cu'i" "knowledge that I'm getting right now", so sometimes they may both apply and sometimes only one of them, or neither.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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