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Re: [lojban] Balningau: The Great Update

On Sun, May 25, 2014 at 4:28 AM, Robert LeChevalier <lojbab@lojban.org> wrote:
<snip>
And by definition, NONE of those categorizations is completely valid, because no one has devised a categorization scheme that encompasses both the semantic meaning of x1 and that of all the other places which are in theory equally important to the gismu semantics.

I haven't dived very far into this hole, myself, but I have looked into the categorization deal a bit.

For example, there are the "x1 is x2 <metric units> in <measurement type> by standard x3" gismu, which, with the exception of {mitre}, have the exact same place structure. (Similarly for the non-metric measurement gismu.)

There all the creature gismu, which with some exceptions, are all "x1 is a <creature> of species x2".

{klama}, {litru}, {muvdu}, and not quite {pluta} differ only in which of the places of {klama} they do or do not contain. ({pluta} has an extra place for the set of points defining the route, as well as reordering the {klama} places it has.)

I certainly agree that categorizing purely based on the x1 is a BAD idea, but I contend that there have indeed been efforts to categorized based on the entire meaning.

<snip>
Of course, since the language is intended to "go feral" and cease to be under prescriptive control, it can be argued that we already have conceded that time-free sense in incorrect.  Or perhaps any apparent rule which does change through usage is therefore not-a-rule.  In which case we may never know "the rules of the language" as long as there are Lojban users.  (This tension may indicate why many Lojbanists like the idea of the community deciding what the language is through usage, while at the same time want a perpetual BPFK around to codify usage questions prescriptively (which is arguably exactly the opposite of community decision.)

I personally do not think Lojban should ever stop being a prescriptive language, and if you want my reasons for it, I direct you to Robin's rant. Although I'm unlikely to live long enough to see it, I might be persuaded to change my stance if and when a significant community of first-language natives of Lojban exist.

As far as this "endeavor", I would consider this effort to be an in-the-works BPFK change proposal, to be potentially reviewed once the freeze had been lifted, and nothing more. As anything other than a change proposal, I emphatically agree with .lojbab. as to it being a language-schism, especially as has been announced not merely as an unofficial project, but also as a self-professed attempt to undermine the established authority- the very definition of a schism.
--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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