Re: [lojban] Balningau: The Great Update

[Craig Daniel <craigbdaniel@gmail.com>]

Question:

Is it your intention to fork off of Lojban? If so, what do you believe
fracturing the speech community will accomplish? If not, why are you
making no apparent effort to make this any kind of official project?

(I say this as somebody who loves the idea of a better-organized, more
internally consistent gimste and is likely to back any kind of
official proposal to sanely bring about such a thing.)

 - mi'e .kreig.daniyl.

On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 4:50 PM, Dustin Lacewell <dlacewell@gmail.com> wrote:
> This message is an announcement and an invitation.
>
> An effort will begin shortly by a number of jbopre, for which this
> announcement
> speaks, that pertains to the systematic review and, where deemed necessary,
> revision of the entire gimste.
>
> We expect a lot of varied responses to this effort.
>
> The response we expect to receive the loudest is the one that denies the
> very
> legitimacy of the endeavor. We have considered how to approach the community
> regarding this agenda and the conclusion was to formally approach the
> mailing-list, Facebook and IRC communities regarding the status-quo
> regarding
> the policies related to lojban's maintenance.
>
> You can view the result of this approach in this thread:
>
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/lojban/_juGorRhWtI
>
> We implore you to carefully review the progression of discourse and consider
> for
> yourself what may be concluded from the positions put forth there. The
> outcome
> is not much different than what we expected when we submitted the original
> message, at least in terms of pushback. The amount of explicit support and
> advocacy was incredibly encouraging and reaffirming.
>
> The conclusion, as far as we are concerned, can essentially be characterized
> as
> a mix between a simplistic resolve that "somebody 'just' needs to pick up
> where
> we left off!" and long historical digressions about why things are
> gridlocked in
> the first place. The suggestions provided for removing that gridlock have
> been,
> to be clear, deemed unreasonable and not worth their weight in practical
> value.
>
> Consider the character in proposing that those with the will to work on the
> language
> first carry out the lengthy agendas gone unfinished for more than 10 years,
> including puzzling suggestions to do things like finish a CLL reflective of
> decade old Lojban, only to subsequently replace it with a modern one.
>
> Be certain that we have *heard* these outlines for how we should be spending
> our
> efforts, considered them, and decided we have no intention of carrying out
> such
> tautological efforts as prerequisites to our own. To speak plainly, we
> simply
> are not interested. We have far more practical things to do that are
> directly
> related to dealing with making the lojbanic prescription more immediately
> reflective of modern lojban for the benefit of its current speakers and the
> sensibilities of those finding the language for the first time, every day.
>
> ta'onai
>
> The first of those efforts is the aforementioned revision of the gimste. We,
> and
> those who decide to participate, will be systematically visiting each gismu
> in
> the gimste and applying modern sensibilities and usage to their place
> structures. This includes changing the order, removing or adding places as
> it is
> deemed valuable and sensible to do so. We intend to use the software model
> for
> this process, specifically for the use of change proposals, review, and
> potential integrational merging of individual changes back into the gimste.
>
> The current repository where this work will take place can be found here:
>
> https://github.com/balningau/gimste
>
> We are currently working to organize this repository with the data of the
> gimste
> so that work can begin. We will be authoring a number of documents outlining
> the
> procedure and process for this effort explicitly so that it can be
> referenced
> later. We will also include good information about how to interact with
> github's
> interface to participate in the effort, using easy to understand language
> and
> pictures outlining the steps to perform things like, submitting your own
> change
> proposal, and commenting on the proposal's of others.
>
> If you think you too would like to participate directly in this process we
> HIGHLY encourage you to come visit us in the #balningau channel on Freenode
> IRC.
> There is still some time before we actually begin as the aforementioned
> documentation needs to be authored and we need to further discuss the
> process
> and ordering of that process before anything happens. However, we are
> getting
> fairly close to feeling ready to begin so please come and join us in direct
> discourse.
>
> We expect this thread will devolve into the philosophy about the mere
> integrity or legitimacy of the effort or specific revisions to the gismu
> that
> this person or that person agrees or disagrees with. As for the former,
> we'll be
> listening to that discussion but no longer feel strongly compelled by it. As
> for
> the latter, we again highly encourage you to come to #balningau where such
> specific discussions are happening all the time. Furthermore, when we move
> to
> begin having those conversations in a more formal context on github,
> utilizing
> the issue system, you will be more contextualized when that happens.
>
> Thanks for reading this far.
> Regards,
> Dustin
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "lojban" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.