Re: [lojban] {ciftoldi}. caterpillar is not a cifnu

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Subject: Re: [lojban] {ciftoldi}. caterpillar is not a cifnu

From: Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>

Date: Sat, 30 May 2015 08:17:44 +0300

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2015-05-30 1:11 GMT+03:00 Pierre Abbat <phma@bezitopo.org>:

On Friday, May 29, 2015 14:26:40 Michael Turniansky wrote:
> And yet turtles and snakes and fish just out of the egg can fend for
> themselves. Are you saying the are not babies?

What you have here is the altricial-precocial distinction. This is independent
of whether the baby is a larva. Caterpillars are precocial; schadons are
altricial. Gnus are precocial; humans are altricial.

Yes, I will reply to Piier's message then.

When children say that butterflies have babies there can be only two explanations:

1. Parents told them that in English using the word "baby".

2. Parents told them in Lojban or the children themselves watched the metamorphosis but used parents' explanations in Lojban and then use the term {cifnu}.

Back to Lojban

verba/makcu is a fuzzy set.

cifnu/tolcifnu (helplessness) is a fuzzy set too.

As for stages of development they are not connected to those concepts, they are orthogonal.

Take salamanders.

They have metamorphosis too. However, if there is the lack of iodine they dont transform and show neoteny. Thus at "larva" stage they become sexually mature. When given iodine they transform into the next stage.

Where is {cifnu} and where is {makcu} here?

It's just that English confuses .uenaisai those concepts.

If Lojban were created by salamanders {larva} would be a gismu.

Pierre
--
Jews use a lunisolar calendar; Muslims use a solely lunar calendar.

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