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[lojban] Re: {tu'e...tu'u} in NU





Le mercredi 15 juillet 2015 13:51:59 UTC, la durka a écrit :
In general I think it's a bad idea to change {.i} so that it doesn't always start a new sentence. The major problems are that it deals a heavy blow to the whole concept of


Officially, {i} always start a new "statement", while {i JOI} or {i (tag) BO} start a new sentence. La zantufa does not differs in this point.

 
elidible terminators, if you can't "just start a new sentence" to get out of a deeply nested pit of abstractions; and it means it's no longer possible to quickly scan a text for {.i} to separate the sentences -- you need to parse the entire text to find the sentence boundaries. So I would definitely favor a solution for the first problem that doesn't change the grammar so drastically. (Not to say I'm against new grammar in general, of course! But I find severe disadvantages with this particular proposal.)



Allowing a full statement in nu-clause or noi-clause requires KEI or KUhO in more cases than the official grammar, and it is just like cmevla as selbrisle requires CU in more cases. This change is required mainly from a logical point of view, and incidentally for grammatical simplicity.

A statement in nu-clause has its own universe of discourse independent from the outer bridi. A full logical reasoning must be possible in that universe, but the official grammar limits the freedom of logical _expression_ in nu-clause to so-called "subsentence". I just gave the full liberty of logical _expression_ to that universe in nu-clause. 

If Lojban is called "logji bangu", I think it's structure related to Logic should be more refined, otherwise "logji" should be removed from its sub-name.

As for noi-clause, the universe of discourse is the same as that of outer bridi. I don't think noi-clause must have full liberty of logical _expression_, but it is also liberated only for simplicity of grammar.

If you don't like this proposal, just don't use la zantufa. It is defined as "zabna fi la guskant" parser, not "fi do".

 
The bonus problem is not so hard -- you can use {zo'u} as la .guskant. said, or indeed plain tu'e/tu'u, or connect the sentences with {.ije} or {.ibo} to suggest close binding.

- mu'o mi'e la durkavore

P.S. It occurs to me that la zipcpi's "super-terminator" {.i'au}/{.iau}, which I previously dismissed, could cover some of my above objections to changing the meaning of {.i}. However such a super-terminator has yet to be formalized and it seems silly to introduce the change if we need an escape hatch cmavo for the common case!

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