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Re: [lojban] jbonunsla - location



    Bob, it's true that ISO-8601 set the standard as Monday as first day, but that's not culturally neutral.  As you will see in the Wikipedia article on Week:

SystemFirst day of weekFirst week of year containsCan also be last week of previous yearUsed by/in
ISO-8601Monday4 January1st Thursday4–7 days of yearnoEU and most of other European countries
(Islamic)Saturday1 January1st Friday1–7 days of yearyesMuch of the Middle East
(North American)Sunday1 January1st Saturday1–7 days of yearyesCanada, USA, China, Japan, Israel, most of Latin America

  Some languages reflect a Sunday-first order: "the Portuguese word for Monday is segunda-feira and the Greek [liturgical] word is Δευτέρα "devtéra" (second in order). Likewise the Hebrew name for Monday is yom-sheni (יום שני)."

  So why is Monday first in Europe?  This basically reflects the influence of Xtianity, aiming to align Sunday ("The Lord's Day") as the seventh day of the week so that the Ten Commandments would seem to refer to Sunday as the Sabbath, not Saturday as it was understood to be for centuries (although again, even languages like Spanish and Portuguese reveal the original, because they call Saturday sábado)

  So, to reiterate, billions of non-Xtian people refer to other-than-Monday as the first day of the week.  It's only the decidedly non-culturally-neutral Europe that does.  It's hardly universal.
Bob writes:
Any particular religion should not enter into the consideration at all.  
  Exactly.  But it does, by its very nature.

  Numbering days is inherently fraught with religious overtones.  Coloring them is not.  And it's not just theoretic.  When you call Sunday zeldei, it does indeed cause a visceral reaction in me ( My "a'unaisaire'e" in my previous letter was not merely hyperbole)


On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 at 1:37 PM, Bob LeChevalier <lojbab@lojban.org> wrote:
On 6/29/2015 9:00 AM, Michael Turniansky wrote:
je'e .i ku'i ca lo nu so'a le me lu la'o gy Monday gy  se cmene zo
pavdei li'u bende cu pante keikuko na xusra lo du'u mi na kajde do lo
si'o kulnu zaznalnu'i va'u ii

            --gejyspa


On Sun, Jun 28, 2015 at 2:41 PM, Pierre Abbat <phma@bezitopo.org
<mailto:phma@bezitopo.org>> wrote:

    On Friday, June 26, 2015 11:55:20 Michael Turniansky wrote:
    > We never really established it, but as I said in the original email
    > proposing the the thing
    >
    >https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/ja_mbMiAt4A/aNdRhAb91aIJ) :
    > >  I suggest for the sake of cultural neutrality, making the cycle start
    > >
    > > so that zirdei be Tuesday, since I was born on Tuesday and purple is
    > > my favorite color. If I was culturally un-neutral, I'd say xunday [sic] is
    > > Sunday, since that's the "start" for both cycles..
    >
    >   Since these words never entered the dictionary, or had any other
    > officialness, I used my suggestion and start with purple on tuesday...

    Setting zirdei to Tuesday because that's your favorite color and
    birthdate is
    like making a gismu for "smoot". Lots of distances all over the
    world are
    measured in meters. Many distances (largely in the air) are measured
    in feet.
    Only one thing (a certain bridge) is measured in smoots.

    Both of us agree that the first day is Sunday (and that, for religious
    purposes, the week starts at the previous sunset), so I'm going to
    enter them
    with xundei being Sunday.

I haven't been following this discussion, so why are people discussing concocting a new system for days of the week?  The original method just attached a number for the day. I get confused these days from not using Lojban enough, but I think we dealt with the issue of where to start by allowing Sunday to be zero-day (and therefore first) or seven-day (and therefore last).  The international standard is that Monday is the first day of the week.

http://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/days/

Any particular religion should not enter into the consideration at all.  See the definition of jeftu which even allows for the possibility of other-than-seven day weeks, though the default should probably be the international standard.

Doing anything with colors or other oddball schemes is a likely to succeed as attempts to redo the months of the year, or clock times.

lojbab


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