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[lojban] Sensations / qualia (colors etc.)



One question that comes up time and again is how to separate "red", the color, from an object that's red, {lo xunre}. E.g. "I like (the color) red". "Red is a beautiful color".

{si'o} is often suggested (mi nelci lo si'o xunre / lo si'o xunre cu melbi), but may not be a sufficient solution. Compare with "I see the color red". This is not necessarily dependent on there actually being anything red; I might be hallucinating, or have synaesthesia.

Selpahi has suggested making new brivla altogether for the colors, but I believe that they need to be regularized from {xunre} etc. Just making zi'evla for the colors ({xu'unre} etc.) is, I believe, an unsustainable solution; what of combinatory color words, or {skasmi} or {skarxetmele}?

Additionally, it isn't just colors that have this issue. How about "I feel dryness"? This is similarly independent of there actualy being anything that's {lo sudga}.

I propose that what is actually needed is a new type of object. I have defined it as {ganseti} on JVS: http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/dict/ganseti

x1 is the sensation/qualia (abstract) associated with objects with property x2 (ka), via sense x3 (ka)

lo ganseti be lo ka (ce'uxunre = "the color red", lo ganseti be lo ka (ce'usudga = "the sensation/feeling of dryness". x3 is the involved sense, e.g. lo ka viska for sight; this can often be left unspecified. Proposed NU: ga'ei, with rafsi -gel- . See ganseli'i.

Thoughts? Questions? Alternatives?

Additional thought: If {lo ganseti} / {lo ga'ei broda} is a new type of object, where does it go? nelci2 is flexible enough to accept both concrete and abstract objects of all kinds, but is a ga'ei-type suitable for ganse2 or viska2? If it isn't, we'd need new brivla for those. Perhaps a new gismu, {gelse} "x1 (entity) feels sensation x2 (ga'ei) via sense x3 (ka)". With rafsi -ge'e-, so that lujvo can then be built e.g. {visyge'e} = {x1 gelse x2 lo ka viska}

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