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[lojban] Re: bridi mathematics





Em terça-feira, 4 de julho de 2017 08:08:49 UTC+3, Vincent Broman escreveu:

The fact that lojban mekso represents a subset of the language that is complex, little-used, and a burden to learn, makes me as a mathematician wonder whether we could could still express ourselves in mathematical terms with much simpler verbal tools, and let the complex cruft either get decommissioned, or just die of benign neglect. Lispers are confident that all computations can be expressed with lists and functions. Bridi seem general enough to do whatever needs doing. I investigated how well we might do just using PA and bridi, inspired by these two essays, but with less revolution.

http://teddyb.org/robin/tiki-index.php?page=Lojban%2C+Math%2C+mekso%2C+and+bridi+cmaci

https://github.com/RossOgilvie/essays/blob/master/source/fancu%20bridi%20mekso.md

It turns out that without changing the grammar, it's hard to do complex quantifiers (you end up saying "poi zilkancu") and nearly impossible to do complex subscripts. So, we end up needing bridi, PA, VEI, VEhO, and MOhE, assuming the current grammar. La camgusmis points out that with bridi you often get intricately nested BE/BEI/BEhO constructions that can become a mess, so a coinage like "nihai" or "poihi" within the NU part of speech greatly simplifies the appearance of nested expressions.

Attached are all the relevant mekso examples in CLL11 extracted for a comparison test, where I append to each one a restatement achieved without most of the mekso grammar, just using my subset with bridi. In terms of verbosity, the specialized mekso form in these samples saves about 30% in syllables, compared to bridi math. In my view the simplicity achieved by the longer bridi expressions would be worth the verbosity, especially since bridi math is easily extensible by coining words, while mekso syntax is fixed, and crossing the boundary between mekso and bridi is effortful.

One should note in addition, that all the bridi equations I cite could be simplified at the top level just like the following example by omitting the "du": "li mu cu du lo nihai sumji li re li ci kei" becomes "li mu cu sumji li re li ci", saving 5 syllables each time, at the cost of looking a little different from math.

mihe la bremenli

mekso-bridi.pdf

https://app.box.com/s/mvasmtp4dmlz9wzfx1jdhu4knkpj4gmb


Looks nice. Can you please 
1. remove final {.i} or add {.i} to the beginnings of both versions?
2. use equal width font and plain text / or just count syllables in both versions?

i'm surprised meknamcu2 is text.
Many examples are still not a full conversion into predicate logic, although, probably, this wasn't the goal.

 

mekso-bridi.odt

https://app.box.com/s/6nk1ysst94896cobk82i14sc9u6vg9zc

mekso-syllables.txt

https://app.box.com/s/qsydv85ska6mc43nx4k2jl1rle9un59h



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