From araizen@newmail.net Thu Aug 23 16:50:37 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: araizen@newmail.net X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_1); 23 Aug 2001 23:50:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 89361 invoked from network); 23 Aug 2001 23:47:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Aug 2001 23:47:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO out.newmail.net) (212.150.54.158) by mta3 with SMTP; 23 Aug 2001 23:47:22 -0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([62.0.180.135]) by out.newmail.net ; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 02:48:14 +0200 Message-ID: <030401c12c36$7c33a4e0$87b4003e@oemcomputer> To: References: Subject: Re: [lojban] Retraction, Part 1 Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 02:39:37 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 From: "Adam Raizen" la xorxes cusku di'e > la pier cusku di'e > > >jipci tarmi isn't right either; it's the shape of a chicken, not something > >shaped like a chicken, which is jipci seltai or jipci tamsmi. > > That's right if you stick to the place structures as presented in > the gismu list. I find that {tarmi} and {skari} are much more useful > if taken to mean "x1 is of the shape of x2" and "x1 is of the color > of x2". Otherwise I don't know what to put in the x1 of the gismu. > In the rare cases when you want to talk of the abstract shape or > color, they're {ka ce'u tarmi makau} and {ka ce'u skari makau}, > or {kamtai} and {kamska} for short. The canonical definition of 'skari' is "x1 is/appears to be of color/hue x2", which appears the same as your definition if you can put an object in x2 and get its color applied to x1, and that seems most likely to me. Your definition of 'tarmi' seems to be 'seltai' if it is possible to put an object in tarmi1 and get its shape applied to tarmi2, which seems plausible and is how I use it. It remains to be seen whether usage can flip the places of tarmi. mu'o mi'e adam