From nicholas@uci.edu Wed Aug 29 16:17:41 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: nicholas@uci.edu X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 29 Aug 2001 23:17:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 14379 invoked from network); 29 Aug 2001 23:17:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 29 Aug 2001 23:17:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO e4e.oac.uci.edu) (128.200.222.10) by mta3 with SMTP; 29 Aug 2001 23:17:40 -0000 Received: from localhost (nicholas@localhost) by e4e.oac.uci.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01199; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 16:17:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: e4e.oac.uci.edu: nicholas owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 16:17:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: To: Cc: Nick NICHOLAS Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Another stab at a Record on ce'u Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII From: Nick NICHOLAS cu'u la xod. [Free ka] >I am not sure this distinction is useful enough. *shrug* Lojbab invokes it, and wants his 'abstract' {ka} to be the default in those contexts (whether he realises it or not. :-) The debate is on the very issue of whether this distinct is in fact useful or not. >I might open a new can by demanding an example of the difference between >"quality" and "property". Or I could be Lojbanic and observe that clearly >whatever difference there may be in English, in Lojban at least as far as >ka is concerned, there isn't any. I think I've been pretty explict on these (and I've been explicit precisely because I know you like to raise this objection): .i lo se ckaji be su'o pa su'e re steci cu me zoi gy. property gy. .i lo se ckaji be zi'o .a piro loi selbri sumti cu me zoi gy. quality gy. {le ka ce'u xendo zo'e zo'e} is a property. {le ka ce'u xendo ce'u ce'u}, which some would call {le si'o xendo}, and others {la'ezo xendo}, (and which Lojbab was originally thinking of as {le ka zo'e xendo zo'e zo'e}) is a quality. Properties are properties of something; qualities are in and of themselves. That's how I understand 'em. -- == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == Nick Nicholas, Breathing {le'o ko na rivbi fi'inai palci je tolvri danlu} nicholas@uci.edu -- Miguel Cervantes tr. Jorge LLambias