From a.rosta@dtn.ntl.com Wed Aug 29 16:53:35 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: a.rosta@dtn.ntl.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 29 Aug 2001 23:53:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 93560 invoked from network); 29 Aug 2001 23:52:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 29 Aug 2001 23:52:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta05-svc.ntlworld.com) (62.253.162.45) by mta3 with SMTP; 29 Aug 2001 23:52:34 -0000 Received: from andrew ([62.253.84.6]) by mta05-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP id <20010829235232.GKCT20588.mta05-svc.ntlworld.com@andrew> for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 00:52:32 +0100 Reply-To: To: Subject: RE: [lojban] The Knights who forgot to say "ni!" Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 00:51:39 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "And Rosta" Xod: > On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Rob Speer wrote: > > > On Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 01:38:40PM -0400, Invent Yourself wrote: > > > If they are equivalent (I'd like to see somebody argue that they are not!) > > > why not use jei as it's shorter? > > > > People _have_ been arguing that they are not equivalent. > > They take the words "truth value" in the ma'oste extremely literally and say > > that this means the entire jei-clause is replaced with 'true' or 'false'. > > > > Of course, I think that interpretation is a load of {malfesti}. > > And you're right. It turns the Book's example sentence into nonsense: > > mi ba jdice le jei dy. zekri gasnu > I will decide whether D. is a criminal > > If D. happens to be a crook, this sentence means "I will decide true"? > What an uncooperative interpretation! In discussions of other matters, we've already agreed that the Book is fallible, and we've already agreed that the mahoste is fallible. All the evidence pro and con the rival interpretations of ni and jei has already been adduced, and it is inconclusive. So there are just two courses of action: live with the ambiguity until Usage (another Lojban deity, I feel) Decides, or else put it to a vote, or to whatever decision mechanism is to apply in a case such as this. --And.