From jjllambias@hotmail.com Thu Aug 30 08:58:18 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jjllambias@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 30 Aug 2001 15:58:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 55087 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2001 15:58:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 30 Aug 2001 15:58:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.241.207) by mta2 with SMTP; 30 Aug 2001 15:58:07 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 08:57:45 -0700 Received: from 200.49.74.2 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 15:57:45 GMT X-Originating-IP: [200.49.74.2] To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [lojban] Siver threads among the mold Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 15:57:45 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Aug 2001 15:57:45.0282 (UTC) FILETIME=[8225AA20:01C1316C] From: "Jorge Llambias" la pycyn cusku di'e >Interestingly, we cannot say in English "She believes who the murderer is" >in >the same sense that we can say "know". I expect we can say this in Lojban >in >the same way. Right: ko'a krici le du'u makau pu catra She has a belief as to who the murderer is. >But we can say things like "She believes what she hears." Which is not an indirect question but a relative clause. >So this superficially similar sounding piece is just {lo se >tirna} (not the right brivla, strictly, for what is intended, but I'm not >trying to be more than sketchy right now), not, say , {lo du'u ko'a tirna >makau}. Right. >Now for the hard one, "Bob and Joe differ in how tall they are" /"in >height" >Bob is 5'6", Joe is 6'5" . {la bab frica la djous le ni ... sraji >clano}{le >ka ... mitre xokau leka sraji} or so. But what goes into the ...? {ce'u}? Yes. >{ke'a}? Do we need something else? >I suggest (very tentatively) {ce'u} I'm glad. I've been using it like that since {ce'u} was invented. >and one of the bound sort that Nick seems >to think common but that others see seldom: That is, we have a function >here >that gives indirect questions (sets of propositions) with the appropriate >name (here from {la bab} and {la djous} ) . I'm even less sure what the >answers with {ni} look like, since I don't see where the numbers go, but... They are hidden: ni = ka sela'u makau >Comments? (I don't know why I ask; I can't say "snow is white" without >several people objecting because of the black snow in Kirghizistan in >1806.) No objections from me this time, that's how I see it too. mu'o mi'e xorxes _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp