Subject: Re: [lojban] Siver threads among the mold

From: "Jorge Llambias" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 02:19:22

la pycyn cusku di'e

> > ni1: li piso'i ni la djan clani
> > =li piso'i jai sela'u clani fai la djan
> >
> > ni2: la djan frica la meris le ni ce'u clani
> > =la djan frica la meris le ka ce'u clani sela'u makau
>
>But now the
>{frica} part: in one sense, any two people will differ in this set, because
>they have a different matrix and thus different members in the set: one has
>{la djan clano} and the other {la meris clano} at he beginning of the
>paradigm cases, for example.

la djan dunli la pol le ka ce'u clani sela'u makau
la djan dunli la pol le ni ce'u clani
John is equal to Paul in how tall they are.

How else would you use 'dunli'?

>{le ni la djan clano cu barda} makes sense,

Only with ni1 = le jai sela'u

>does {le ka la
>djan clano sela'u makau cu barda}?

No.

>I don't think so, but it should if the
>{frica} case works

But the frica case does NOT work with ni1. It only works with ni2.

>Back to an earlier problem: You say quite confidently, having seen that 
>the
>Lojban works out badly or some other how, that "He believes what he hears" 
>is
>just a relative clause, not an indirect question. How do you tell?

Because it means: He believes that, which is what he hears.
Translating to Esperanto is helpful because relative clauses
are treated much more clearly than in English.

>Consider
>"He knows what he likes," where the ambiguity hinges on "know" -- which is
>this one?

As you say, it is ambiguous. It can mean "He knows what it is that
he likes" (indirect question, and the more likely interpretation)
or "He knows that, which is what he likes" (relative clause, but
it would require lots of context).

>or, wihtout ambiguity in the verb, "He sees what he likes."

It could mean "He sees what is it that he likes" (indirect q.)
but much more likely "He sees that which he likes" (relative c.).

>I am
>still worried that this question/relative ambiguity underlies a problem
>here,though it may not be the 1-2 contrast you are working on.

The 1-2 contrast is the contrast between {le broda} and
{le du'u makau broda}. In English both can often be said
using the same words.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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