From pycyn@aol.com Fri Aug 31 13:42:44 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: Pycyn@aol.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 31 Aug 2001 20:42:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 55755 invoked from network); 31 Aug 2001 20:41:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 31 Aug 2001 20:41:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-r04.mx.aol.com) (152.163.225.100) by mta2 with SMTP; 31 Aug 2001 20:41:32 -0000 Received: from Pycyn@aol.com by imo-r04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id r.1e.1a76ae00 (18255) for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 16:41:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1e.1a76ae00.28c15070@aol.com> Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 16:41:20 EDT Subject: Re: [lojban] Siver threads among the mold To: lojban@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_1e.1a76ae00.28c15070_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10535 From: pycyn@aol.com --part1_1e.1a76ae00.28c15070_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/31/2001 12:10:09 PM Central Daylight Time, a.rosta@dtn.ntl.com writes: > *He believes what the fuck he hears. > *He believes why she came. > *He believes who came. > But "believes" can't tak an indirect question at all, so that doesn't help in this case: e.g. *He believes who the murderer is. (Note, all of these are OK with a certain intonation pattern, too.) <"He sees what he likes." a poor choice. See also means "understand", and allows an interrogative complement in that sense.> Maybe, but the ambiguity of "what he likes" remains even if the sense is restricted to "visually perceives." And so a problem for us until we are sure that we are always recognizing it. Since we still don't have a test for it in English, it remains possible that it lies behind some of the aberrant cases in trying to deal with indirect whatsis. --part1_1e.1a76ae00.28c15070_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/31/2001 12:10:09 PM Central Daylight Time,
a.rosta@dtn.ntl.com writes:


*He believes what the fuck he hears.
*He believes why she came.
*He believes who came.
*He believes what


But "believes" can't tak an indirect question at all, so that doesn't help in
this case: e.g. *He believes who the murderer is. (Note, all of these are OK
with a certain intonation pattern, too.)

<"He sees what he likes."

a poor choice. See also means "understand", and allows an interrogative
complement in that sense.>
Maybe, but the ambiguity of "what he likes" remains even if the sense is
restricted to "visually perceives."

<The interrogative/relative distinction is a problem only in that it confuses
some people who fail to recognize it. That is, it's a very superficial
problem.>

And so a problem for us until we are sure that we are always recognizing it.  
Since we still don't have a test for it in English, it remains possible that
it lies behind some of the aberrant cases in trying to deal with indirect
whatsis.

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