From jjllambias@hotmail.com Fri Aug 31 16:53:59 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jjllambias@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2); 31 Aug 2001 23:53:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 40238 invoked from network); 31 Aug 2001 23:53:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 31 Aug 2001 23:53:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.241.107) by mta2 with SMTP; 31 Aug 2001 23:53:54 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 16:53:54 -0700 Received: from 200.41.247.53 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 23:53:54 GMT X-Originating-IP: [200.41.247.53] To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [lojban] Siver threads among the mold Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 23:53:54 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Aug 2001 23:53:54.0796 (UTC) FILETIME=[31514AC0:01C13278] From: "Jorge Llambias" la pycyn cusku di'e > >I don't see that at all, what could be more different than that one is 5'6" >and the other 6'5"? And, indeed, it is just that difference that makes the >difference in the ni2 case; you just come at it a different way. Yes, obviously the two meanings are related. >In short, I >am unconvinced that there are two uses here that have been separated >yet,and >the fact that that they are intertranslatable in a mechanical way tends to >support this feeling. Whatever. {da poi broda} and {le du'u da broda} are intertranslatable in a mechanical way and yet they refer to different things. >Part of the problem is, I think (as you know by now), >is that there is a hidden relative here trying to be fit into an indirect >question. In English certainly. Both use the same surface form. >{le du'u makau broda}. In English both can often be said >using the same words.> > >And again, how do you know which it is in a given case, so that the theory >you are building is built only on cases you want in? I can tell them apart from their meaning, I really don't see what your objection is. None of the examples you gave presents a problem. If you can replace "what I want" by "that one" then it is a relative clause. If you can't, then it's an indirect question, and you can replace it by "what it is that I want". But I can't believe that you would confuse them. mu'o mi'e xorxes _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp