From xod@sixgirls.org Fri Sep 07 11:13:26 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: xod@reva.sixgirls.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_1); 7 Sep 2001 18:13:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 8875 invoked from network); 7 Sep 2001 18:04:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Sep 2001 18:04:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO reva.sixgirls.org) (64.152.7.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 7 Sep 2001 18:04:24 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by reva.sixgirls.org (8.11.6/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f87I4Ns24290 for ; Fri, 7 Sep 2001 14:04:23 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 14:04:23 -0400 (EDT) To: Subject: archetype abstraction (was: lo'e (was: Re: [lojban] ce'u In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII From: Invent Yourself On Fri, 7 Sep 2001, And Rosta wrote: > Xod: > > On Fri, 7 Sep 2001, And Rosta wrote: > > > > > I think that Jorge's conception of {lo'e} has always been incompatible > > > with {lo'e cinfo cu xabju le friko}. But {lo'e cinfo cu xabju le friko} > > > is objectionable, because it is prone to ambiguity. For example, we > > > can discuss the prototypical or archetypal lion, without it then > > > being the case that non-atypical lions have been discussed by us. > > > Gadri + sumti tail is simply not the right way to do archetypes; it > > > clearly calls for some sort of bridi abstraction, such that xabju > > > le friko would be within the abstraction, while "discussed by us" > > > would be outside. > > > > Please follow up this suggestion with the appropriate gismu to stick in > > su'u2 to achieve the desired result! > > I don't know how su'u x1 and x2 are supposed to work, and nor do I know > how to implement what I argued for above. However, very tentatively, > and intuitively, I could start the ball rolling with this: > > tu'o si'o cinfo kei se su'u ce'u xabju le friko > > as a way of saying that the archetypal lion archetypally-has the > property of living in Africa. As for "We discussed the archetypal lion", > I don't know. Maybe > > mi'a simxu tu'o du'u ce'u ce'u tavla loi su'u be tu'o si'o cinfo > > All this is just a first stab, and there to be improved on. My 1st stab at an archetype abstractor is su'u broda kei be le sucta/prane prane because, although the keyword is "perfect": x1 is perfect/ideal/archetypical/faultless/flawless/un-improvable in property/aspect x2 (ka) ----- "We should destroy the Muslims' homes while leaving the Christians' homes alone." -- Rehavam Zeevi, Israeli Tourism Minister