From xod@sixgirls.org Tue Sep 18 22:47:45 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: xod@reva.sixgirls.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_2); 19 Sep 2001 05:47:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 50030 invoked from network); 19 Sep 2001 05:47:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by 10.1.1.220 with QMQP; 19 Sep 2001 05:47:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO reva.sixgirls.org) (64.152.7.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 19 Sep 2001 05:47:44 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by reva.sixgirls.org (8.11.6+3.4W/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f8J5lhJ29276 for ; Wed, 19 Sep 2001 01:47:44 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 01:47:43 -0400 (EDT) To: Subject: Re: [lojban] noxemol ce'u In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII From: Invent Yourself On Tue, 18 Sep 2001, Nick NICHOLAS wrote: > > I tuned out of this discussion, and now that I have caught sight of it, I > wish I hadn't. Heh. If it's good enough for you, it's good enough for me too! > And since a number is *not* intersubstitutable with a proposition, so > ni1 and ni2 are irreconcilable (ni and ka should not properly be > intersubstitutable in any context), we can do two things: Why are you saying ka creates a proposition? Is this the fruit of our revolution?? > 1) Say sentences where ni2 arises (as bound-ni) are wrong, and that you > shouldn't say {le pixra cu cenba le ni ce'u blanu [kei]} at all, but {le > pixra cu cenba leka leni ce'u blanu cu barda}; > > 2) (Messier, but I think far more desirable): do type-coercion: say that > you're using ni to talk about a ka, and that you're doing it kind of > elliptically, but without formally marking that ellipticality. So {le > pixra cu cenba le ni ce'u blanu [kei]} would be called a convenient > shorthand for saying {le pixra cu cenba leka leni ce'u blanu cu barda}. > The type-coercion comes in in that clearly a number makes no sense as the > x2 of cenba, as you rightly point out, so you behind-the-scenes turn it > into something that does make sense. 3) Learn from the interesting fact that Lojban thinks it makes sense to say {le pixra cu cenba le ni ce'u blanu}. What does this tell us about numbers and the world? > > This really means {tu'a le ni...}, of course, and there's no precedent for > type-coercion in Lojban: if you mean tu'a, you say tu'a. But I'd rather > make an exception for {ni} than break the baseline --- which, sorrily, is > arguably broken for {ni} just as it is for {ka}. We've had the Palace Coup > for {ka}; let's not have one for {ni} as well. This seems like something totally different though. ----- Sami ul-Haq, Osama bin Laden's closest friend in Pakistan, runs the "University for the Education of Truth," a fundamentalist institution that educated and trained nine out of the Taliban's top 10 leaders.