From Ti@fa-kuan.muc.de Fri Sep 21 00:18:56 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: Ti@fa-kuan.muc.de X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_2); 21 Sep 2001 07:18:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 90186 invoked from network); 21 Sep 2001 07:18:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 21 Sep 2001 07:18:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n21.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.2.81) by mta1 with SMTP; 21 Sep 2001 07:18:52 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: Ti@fa-kuan.muc.de Received: from [10.1.10.114] by ci.egroups.com with NNFMP; 21 Sep 2001 07:18:52 -0000 Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 07:18:50 -0000 To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Dumb answers to good questions Message-ID: <9oepkq+tqso@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 1907 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 62.104.218.70 From: "A.W.T." --- In lojban@y..., Nick NICHOLAS wrote: >=20 > cu'u la .aulun >=20 > >Hebrew "davka" (dvkh) or Yiddish "davke" (dvvk') have similar > >counterparts in German. > >davka: "gerade", desto trotz, "ausgerechnet" >=20 > Oh, now I'm with you. I was always amused that the German translation of > the TV series "Northern Exposure" was "Alaska ausgerechnet" --- "Alaska, > of all places!" (which, from what little I remember of it, was pretty muc= =3D=0D h > Joel Fleischman's constant reaction.) Now, there, it's more like > {jectrxalaska .ue}; but of course, there, it isn't even a complete > sentence to distinguish focus from theme in. Correct. This "ausgerechnet" postpositive is used in common speech (or in d= =3D=0D ialects*) as kind of interjection. It should be written=20 with a pause "Alaska - ausgerechnet!" (or at least a comma). It's comparabl= =3D=0D e to Obelix' "Die spinnen, die R=F6mer!" Without the=20 pause, it rather reads "Alaska calculated/worked out" etc. Usually it's the other way round, like in the Comedian Harmonists' "Schlage= =3D=0D r" from the 20/30ies (?): Aus-ge-rech-net Ba-na-nen, Ba-na-nen ver-langt sie von mir ;-) (* E.g. in Bavarian dialect or, of course, Yiddish:=20 "... ferd mayns, getrayer..." ("a dorf a dorf" in http://www.fa-kuan.muc.de= =3D=0D /YIDISH.RXML)=20 =20 > >Don't think that Lojban has a word for this purpose, but why not use {fa= =3D=0D , > >fe, fi, fo, fu} positioning for it? (the Book is mentioning this!) >=20 > Does the book explicitly say that positioning has such theme-rheme > effects? I know that in natural languages, that's the real reason you > shuffle word order (which is why journalistic Greek has always seemed to > me unnatural --- they don't do it); but it's not actually The Lojban Way > to leave this without an explicit marker... I remember it does, yet couldn't find it since it's mentioned pretty "en pa= =3D=0D ssant" with regard to different word order. mu'o .aulun.