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Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 13:26:27 +0100
To: lojban <lojban@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] Set of answers encore
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From: And Rosta <arosta@uclan.ac.uk>

>>> Jorge Llambias <jjllambias@hotmail.com> 09/26/01 11:46pm >>>
#la and cusku di'e
#>Another example:
#>
#>John believes that Bill's age is the cube root of 389017.
#>
#>... when John has the thought "It is the case that Bill is 73".
#
#I think we should distinguish the two claims:
#
#(1) la djan krici le du'u la bil se nanca
# le tenfa be li 389017 bei li 1/3
#
#(2) la djan krici le du'u le se nanca be la bil
# cu tenfa li 389017 li 1/3
#
#In (1), John's belief is about the {nanca} relationship, in (2)
#it is about the {tenfa} relationship. In neither it's about both.

[=3D "In neither is it about both"?]

#Whether or not {le tenfa be li 389017 bei li 1/3} is a good way
#or not to refer to {li 73} is up to the speaker, and has nothing
#to do with John's beliefs in (1).

I agree IFF you leave the gadri as {le} -- le se nanca, le tenfa.
If they're {le}, then (1-2) can rewrite as:

(1') le tenfa be li 389017 bei li 1/3 be'o goi ko'a zo'u
la djan krici le du'u la bil se nanca ko'a

(2') le se nanca be la bil be'o goi ko'a zo'u
la djan krici le du'u ko'a cu tenfa li 389017 li 1/3

which are patently nonsynonymous.

However,=20

(1'') la djan krici le du'u la bil se nanca
lo tenfa be li 389017 bei li 1/3

(2'') la djan krici le du'u lo se nanca be la bil
cu tenfa li 389017 li 1/3

are both synonymous and equivalent to

(3) la djan krici le du'u da ge se nanca la bil
gi tenfa li 389017 li 1/3

--And.