From xod@sixgirls.org Thu Sep 27 11:31:30 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: xod@reva.sixgirls.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 27 Sep 2001 18:31:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 22799 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2001 18:31:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by 10.1.4.56 with QMQP; 27 Sep 2001 18:31:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO reva.sixgirls.org) (64.152.7.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 27 Sep 2001 18:31:28 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by reva.sixgirls.org (8.11.6+3.4W/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f8RIVPi07784 for ; Thu, 27 Sep 2001 14:31:25 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 14:30:09 -0400 (EDT) To: lojban Subject: The Pleasures of goi (was: zipf computations & experimental cmavo In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII From: Invent Yourself On Thu, 27 Sep 2001, And Rosta wrote: > >>> Rob Speer 09/26/01 10:17pm >>> > #On Wed, Sep 26, 2001 at 04:57:08PM -0400, John Cowan wrote: > #> Rob Speer wrote: > #> >(For those who don't see the problem with symmetry: names are assignable. > #> >Pro-sumti are assignable. What gets assigned if you say {la djan. goi > #> >ko'a}?) > #> > [1] > #> If you know what ko'a means, then la djan. is defined to mean whatever > #> ko'a means. > [2] > #> If you know what la djan. means, then ko'a is defined to mean whatever > #> la djan. means. > [3] > #> If you don't know what either means, then they mean the same, but *what* > #> they mean will arrive in future. > [4] > #> If you know what both mean, and they already mean the same thing, the > #> goi-phrase is unnecessary. > [5] > #> If you know what both mean, and they mean different things, *bzzzzzt*, > #> semantic error. > #> > #> This is called "unification" in Prolog. > # > #Hmm. That actually makes sense. I think I'll stop touting asymmetrical goi. > #I suggest you put that on the Wiki, too, because I don't think it's clarified > #anywhere else. > > I reject symmetric goi because: > > (1) Even if ko'a has already been assigned a meaning, you may want to reassign > a different meaning to ko'a ko'a goi la djan. .i li'o .i la fred. goi ko'a You wish to interpret this as "John = Fred", instead of a reassignment? bi'u In usage we've been interpreting it as reassignment. > (2) You may want to assign the name la djan to something regardless of whether > anything else in the world of discourse could plausibly bear that name. From the > hearer's perspective, the hearer has no way of knowing whether to treat the > name as simply a label assigned to ko'a, or whether to set off round the universa > of discourse in search of a plausible referent for la djan and then assign that > referent to ko'a. > (3) symmetric goi = no'u le cando no'u ko'a? no'u probably works like you think goi already does: ko'a goi la djan. .i li'o .i la fred. no'u ko'a ko'a is John. Fred is John. > #(Incidentally, I don't need 2 copies of each e-mail - just reply to the list.) > > Everyone is entitled to a vice. This is John's. I'm afraid John's vice is that he likes to keep the mailing list configured so that such duplicate mails are the default, requiring extra steps to overcome. -- It's said that Mullah Omar has met two non-Muslims in his life. Others say even that's not true. Sami ul-Haq, Osama bin Laden's closest friend in Pakistan, runs the "University for the Education of Truth," a fundamentalist institution that educated and trained nine out of the Taliban's top 10 leaders.