From pycyn@aol.com Thu Sep 27 16:40:48 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: Pycyn@aol.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 27 Sep 2001 23:40:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 75233 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2001 23:40:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by 10.1.4.54 with QMQP; 27 Sep 2001 23:40:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-r07.mx.aol.com) (152.163.225.103) by mta1 with SMTP; 27 Sep 2001 23:40:47 -0000 Received: from Pycyn@aol.com by imo-r07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.7.) id r.14e.1af04a8 (3851) for ; Thu, 27 Sep 2001 19:40:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <14e.1af04a8.28e512f9@aol.com> Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 19:40:41 EDT Subject: Re: [lojban] Set of answers encore To: lojban@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_14e.1af04a8.28e512f9_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10535 From: pycyn@aol.com --part1_14e.1af04a8.28e512f9_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/27/2001 2:23:07 PM Central Daylight Time, rob@twcny.rr.com writes: > > la djan krici da poi go ke'a jetnu gi la bil klama > > "John believes something such that it is true iff Bill goes to it"? > Well, without the "to it," which isn't there and doesn't make much sense. araizen: Not quite, the idea has to be in some sense isomorphic to some version of what the person believes extensionally -- and working out the sense can be a bit of a pain, especially when identity/equivalence gets to play a part. --part1_14e.1af04a8.28e512f9_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/27/2001 2:23:07 PM Central Daylight Time, rob@twcny.rr.com writes:


>   la djan krici da poi go ke'a jetnu gi la bil klama

"John believes something such that it is true iff Bill goes to it"?


Well, without the "to it," which isn't there and doesn't make much sense.

araizen:
<How about 'jinvi', 'djuno', 'krici', 'tugni', 'sarxe', etc. all
default to extensional, and then the intensional sense can be had with
a tanru or lujvo using 'pensi' (or maybe 'te sidbo'). If x both
extensionally believes that y and also thinks about or forms an idea
about y then x intensionally believes that y, no?>
Not quite, the idea has to be in some sense isomorphic to some version of what the person believes extensionally -- and working out the sense can be a bit of a pain, especially when identity/equivalence gets to play a part.
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