Subject: [lojban] Re: The Pleasures of goi (was: zipf computations & experimental cmavo

From: And Rosta <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2001 15:41:16 +0100

Mark:
#--- In lojban@y..., "Bob LeChevalier (lojbab)" <lojbab@l...> wrote:
#> At 01:39 AM 9/30/01 +0100, And Rosta wrote:
#> >The possibility of goi-less ko'a is involved in only one of three key
#> >arguments for asymmetric goi. The other arguments are (i) that no'u
#> >serves the function of woldemarian symmetric goi, and (ii) that ko'a
#> >may already have a referent, which you want to assign to a cmene, and
#> >this must be distinguishable from assigning the referent of a cmene
#> >to a recycled ko'a.
#
#Maybe you guys would like to see this, which I posted on the Wiki 
#s.v. "goi'a" (http://nuzban.wiw.org/wiki/index.php?goi%27a): 
[...]
#I therefore propose that ''da'o'' be used to specify 
#assymetry in ''goi'' and ''cei'' assignments. Whichever element is 
#da'o-ed is considered to be cleared out and overwritten by the new 
#value. This may well mean redefining ''da'o'', which I think 
#currently means "undefine everything." For that meaning, I propose 
'#'da'oda'o''. DAhO has the same grammar as UI, near enough, so it 
#can be considered to attach to things. ''da'o'' outside of goi/cei 
#will retain the meaning of undefining whatever it's attached to.  
#This, I think, is a pretty small change, not really munging baseline 
#badly, and certainly it accords with grammar. And I think it neatly 
#solves several problems at once. ''--mi'e mark''
#
#I second. DAhO is another example of a selma'o that should not 
#exist. Apparently the only difference with UI is that ''da'onai'' is 
#not allowed, but it has a very useful meaning: when you want to 
#emphasize that you are __not__ undefining something. So, whenever it 
#is pertinent, ''da'o'' should be moved to UI. --mi'e [xorxes]
#
#(end of quoting)
#
#What think you, And et al?

I think that it allows us to say what we want unambiguously even with
symmetrical/woldemarian goi. So it is a satisfactory solution.

It's mildly distressing that the solutions we tend to find for our how-to-say
problems tend to involve the addition of ever more syllables and cmavo,
but I suppose I should trust in divine providence to deliver unto us 
great scads of zipfings when the time is right.

--And.