From lojbab@lojban.org Mon Oct 01 15:43:37 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojbab@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 1 Oct 2001 22:42:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 23271 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2001 22:42:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by 10.1.1.223 with QMQP; 1 Oct 2001 22:42:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO stmpy-2.cais.net) (205.252.14.72) by mta2 with SMTP; 1 Oct 2001 22:43:36 -0000 Received: from bob.lojban.org ([209.8.89.72]) by stmpy-2.cais.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f91MhWo11882 for ; Mon, 1 Oct 2001 18:43:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20011001182111.00dc1d40@pop.cais.com> X-Sender: vir1036@pop.cais.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2001 18:40:41 -0400 To: lojban Subject: RE: [lojban] The Pleasures of goi (was: zipf computations & experimental cmavo In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From: "Bob LeChevalier (lojbab)" At 02:14 PM 10/1/01 +0100, And Rosta wrote: >#ii) is not something we designed >#ko'a to be used for, if I understand what you mean by it. If I wanted to >#assign a cmene, I would not use goi, but rather ko'a noi se cmene [name] >#(or ne me'e [name]) > >I think in this respect you're atypical of lojbanists. My sense is that >there's >nothing unorthodoz about using goi to assign a reference to a name, e.g. >"le nanmu goi la djoblogz". I haven't ever seen that, but then I have to admit I read little Lojban text these days. >And whether or not I'm right about that, there is a distinction between >*claiming* (i.e. truly or falsely), using noi and ne, that X is called Y, and >*assigning* referent X to name Y (i.e. performatively decreeing that >X is called Y). There is a distinction, BUT wrt names, the fact that the place structure of cmene includes a place for those who use the name for the referent somewhat obviates the difference. The difference between assigning a name to something and truthfully claiming that I am using a name for something is less than clear (obviously a false claim would not, but if one would falsely claim to be using a particular name for something, one might well assign a name that one intends to use for some other referent). lojbab -- lojbab lojbab@lojban.org Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-0273 Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org