From lojbab@lojban.org Thu Oct 04 08:30:17 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojbab@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 4 Oct 2001 15:30:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 14315 invoked from network); 4 Oct 2001 15:30:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by 10.1.1.222 with QMQP; 4 Oct 2001 15:30:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO stmpy-3.cais.net) (205.252.14.73) by mta3 with SMTP; 4 Oct 2001 15:30:14 -0000 Received: from bob.lojban.org (187.dynamic.cais.com [207.226.56.187]) by stmpy-3.cais.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f94FUCC66084 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 11:30:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20011004111952.00dcc200@pop.cais.com> X-Sender: vir1036@pop.cais.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 11:26:38 -0400 To: lojban Subject: Re: [lojban] fancu In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From: "Bob LeChevalier (lojbab)" At 05:28 PM 10/3/01 +0100, And Rosta wrote: >#> Why would its values be more representative of a function than the >#> relationship that gives rise to it? ># >#"Is mother of," {le ka/du'u ce'u mamta ce'u}, is a relation and, indeed, a >#function, as a set of ordered pairs --though the order is reversed here, so >#{le du'u ce'u se mamta ce'u} . There are many functions for which it is >#somewhat unnatural to think of the corresponding relation (sum, product, and >#the like, for example) and, indeed, the relations can usually be expressed >#only by an equation between the function with an argument and its value for >#that argument (though one way of doing Logic does take this notion as basic, >#to simplify some kinds of metatheoretical proofs). > >I think it would be very helpful to use Sum rather than Mamta as an example. Not that I've come close to following this discussion, but would it be easier to talk about mamta as a function if, like sumji -> su'i, you were to convert mamta to an operator and use Mex na'u mamta ["be ce'u" or "be fa ce'u", whichever is appropriate to mark the value apart from the arguments] lojbab -- lojbab lojbab@lojban.org Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-0273 Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org