From lojbab@lojban.org Thu Oct 04 08:46:51 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojbab@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 4 Oct 2001 15:45:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 46259 invoked from network); 4 Oct 2001 15:45:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by 10.1.1.223 with QMQP; 4 Oct 2001 15:45:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO stmpy-2.cais.net) (205.252.14.72) by mta1 with SMTP; 4 Oct 2001 15:46:49 -0000 Received: from bob.lojban.org (187.dynamic.cais.com [207.226.56.187]) by stmpy-2.cais.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f94Fkmo98569 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 11:46:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20011004113708.00b55780@pop.cais.com> X-Sender: vir1036@pop.cais.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 11:43:15 -0400 To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Reading lojban textbook In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From: "Bob LeChevalier (lojbab)" At 10:55 PM 10/3/01 +0000, Jorge Llambias wrote: >There is an ambiguity. The word "sumti" in English is used for >things like "ko'a", "le klama", "zo mamta", "le ka melbi", and >so on, based just on their form, and therefore are sumseltai of le si'o ce'u sumti >and independently of whether >or not they are used in any predication. We say "le klama" is >a sumti. > >I suppose we could say in Lojban something like: > > lu le zarci li'u sumti lu mi klama le zarci li'u li re > >That would mean that "le zarci" is a sumti in its relationship >with "mi klama le zarci", not all by itself. That is the intention of the gismu list wording >However, the way I interpret the gi'uste, the use in Lojban >should be something more like: > > lo'e zukte cu sumti le du'u ce'u dunda ce'u ce'u kei li pa > "The first argument of the dunda-relationship is an agent. How do you get this? The gi'uste specifically says that x1 and x2 are text. lojbab -- lojbab lojbab@lojban.org Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-0273 Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org