From jjllambias@hotmail.com Fri Oct 05 15:44:51 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jjllambias@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 5 Oct 2001 22:44:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 98929 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2001 22:44:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Oct 2001 22:44:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.241.134) by mta2 with SMTP; 5 Oct 2001 22:44:51 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 15:44:48 -0700 Received: from 200.69.11.248 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 05 Oct 2001 22:44:48 GMT X-Originating-IP: [200.69.11.248] To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [lojban] translation exercise Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 22:44:48 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Oct 2001 22:44:48.0381 (UTC) FILETIME=[5651D2D0:01C14DEF] From: "Jorge Llambias" la ritcrd cusku di'e >What if he's convicted of attempted murder, serves his prison sentence, >gets released, and then goes out and kills someone 20 years on? I don't >think the original English phrase precludes that sequence of events. Neither does the Lojban: le fenki cu se kavbu pu ro nu fy catra da Any murder commited after the capture is allowed by the Lojban, and (perhaps) by the English as well. The question is whether "before" really means "preempting" here or whether the preemption is just an implicature of the context. Of course a translation with {fanta} would not be wrong, there's always a lot of leeway with these things, how to do it depends a lot on the purpose of the translation. But I suspect And was after the most logically-equivalent translation. >It's only concerned with him being captured before committing the murder >that he is currently planning to commit. So 'ro' implies a stronger >meaning that the original text IMHO. In that case your objection should be about an unrelated murder commited 20 years before, not after. You could use {ro le nu} if only relevant murders are to be considered. mu'o mi'e xorxes _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp