From jjllambias@hotmail.com Mon Oct 08 10:15:54 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jjllambias@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 8 Oct 2001 17:15:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 85428 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2001 17:15:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Oct 2001 17:15:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n24.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.2.111) by mta1 with SMTP; 8 Oct 2001 17:15:53 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: jjllambias@hotmail.com Received: from [10.1.10.98] by n24.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Oct 2001 17:10:40 -0000 Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 17:10:31 -0000 To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: fancu Message-ID: <9psmm7+uaa8@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <60.14e4f0a7.28f20b49@aol.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1186 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 200.69.11.136 From: jjllambias@hotmail.com la pycyn cusku di'e >Sticking with the assertive form, "John knows whether you > have stopped beating your wife," would, in the case where the presuppositions > are not met, mean that John knows that the presuppositions are not met, that > the correct answer is {na'i}. I'm not convinced. Consider this: "Does John know whether you have stopped beating your wife?" 1- "Yes, he does. He knows that I don't even have a wife." 2- "No, there's nothing for him to know about it. He knows that I don't even have a wife." I find (2) more realistic. If "I don't even have a wife" was one of the members of the whether-answer-set, then (1) should be the right answer. In Lojban, assuming {na'i} is not a member of the set of answers, we could say: la djan djuno no du'u xukau mi co'u darxi lo mi speni iki'ubo no du'u xukau mi co'u darxi lo mi speni cu jetnu "John knows no 'whether I have stopped beating my wife' because there isn't any 'whether I have stopped beating my wife' to know." (Of course {na'i} is a perfectly ok illocutionary answer, but the set of answers involved in indirect questions has to be the set of logical answers.) mu'o mi'e xorxes