From jjllambias@hotmail.com Fri Oct 12 17:34:03 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jjllambias@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 13 Oct 2001 00:33:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 19221 invoked from network); 13 Oct 2001 00:25:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Oct 2001 00:25:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.241.40) by mta1 with SMTP; 13 Oct 2001 00:25:56 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 12 Oct 2001 16:13:46 -0700 Received: from 200.41.247.55 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 12 Oct 2001 23:13:46 GMT X-Originating-IP: [200.41.247.55] To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [lojban] "knowledge as to who saw who" readings Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 23:13:46 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Oct 2001 23:13:46.0927 (UTC) FILETIME=[8B7723F0:01C15373] From: "Jorge Llambias" la pycyn cusku di'e >< >   su'o da poi grute ku'o su'o de poi pelxu zo'u da du de >   For some x which is a fruit and some y which is yellow, x=y. > >Is that about reference?> > >Yep; it says that the two approaches end up referring to the same thing. I must be misusing "reference" then. To me that sentence has the same sense as {su'o da grute gi'e pelxu}, and I perceive no reference there, it's a statement about the world, but not about any of its things in particular. How do we call the reference that occurs in a term like {ko'a}, as opposed to this "reference" of {su'o da} that doesn't point to anything? This is just meant as a question of vocabulary. mu'o mi'e xorxes _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp