From cowan@ccil.org Sat Oct 13 09:57:18 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: cowan@mercury.ccil.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 13 Oct 2001 16:57:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 60859 invoked from network); 13 Oct 2001 16:57:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by 10.1.1.223 with QMQP; 13 Oct 2001 16:57:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mercury.ccil.org) (192.190.237.100) by mta3 with SMTP; 13 Oct 2001 16:57:17 -0000 Received: from cowan by mercury.ccil.org with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 15sS6D-0005Sa-00 for ; Sat, 13 Oct 2001 12:57:21 -0400 Subject: Re: [lojban] translation challenge: "If today is Monday..." In-Reply-To: from And Rosta at "Oct 13, 2001 10:08:33 am" To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 12:57:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL66 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: X-eGroups-From: John Cowan From: John Cowan And Rosta scripsit: > Translate into Lojban: > > 1. If today is Monday, then tomorrow is Tuesday. > > [Translation should be true, regardless of when it is said.] > > 2. If today is Monday, then tomorrow is Wednesday. > > [Translation should be false, regardless of when it is said.] Okay, I'll play the role of Socratic victim. What's wrong with: ro da poi djedi zo'u da se cmene zo pavdei .ijo lo bavlamdei be da se cmene zo reldei/cibdei For all days X, if X is named Monday, then the successor-day of X is named Tuesday/Wednesday. In other words, it seems to me that the oddity of these sentences reflects the fact that "today" and "tomorrow" are usually absolute in English, but here are being applied as relative terms. "Bavlamdei" is actually relative in Lojban, but is most often used (in a mildly malglico way) as absolute; here we get to use it in the "proper" way. -- John Cowan http://www.ccil.org/~cowan cowan@ccil.org Please leave your values | Check your assumptions. In fact, at the front desk. | check your assumptions at the door. --sign in Paris hotel | --Miles Vorkosigan