Subject: Re: [lojban] translation challenge: "If today is Monday..."

From: John Cowan <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 19:56:53 -0400 (EDT)

[email-masked] scripsit:

> > In other words, it seems to me that the oddity of these sentences reflects
> > the fact that "today" and "tomorrow" are usually absolute in English, but
> > here are being applied as relative terms. "Bavlamdei" is actually relative
> > in Lojban, but is most often used (in a mildly malglico way) as absolute;
> > here we get to use it in the "proper" way.
> 
> Item 1> You didn't say "if" but "iff," which happens to be OK here, in fact, 
> though not what was said/asked for.

Fair enough.

> Item 2>"today", "tomorrow", etc. are token reflexive, i.e., get their 
> references dependent upon when the occurrence of the word in question is 
> uttered. I don't see exactly what is meant here by "relative" (other than 
> "token-reflexive") and "absolute." This use is perfectly normal in English 
> and Lojban.

In English, "today" and "tomorrow" are normally token-reflexive, then,
but in this sentence are used in the senses "a day" and "the successor
of that day".

The Lojban predicate "bavlamdei", though, in fact means "x1 is the
successor-day of x2", but with an appropriately glorked x2 ends
up being used as "tomorrow".

-- 
John Cowan http://www.ccil.org/~cowan [email-masked]
Please leave your values | Check your assumptions. In fact,
at the front desk. | check your assumptions at the door.
--sign in Paris hotel | --Miles Vorkosigan