From Ti@fa-kuan.muc.de Wed Oct 17 11:18:28 2001
Return-Path: <Ti@fa-kuan.muc.de>
X-Sender: Ti@fa-kuan.muc.de
X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com
Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 17 Oct 2001 18:18:28 -0000
Received: (qmail 99191 invoked from network); 17 Oct 2001 18:18:28 -0000
Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26)
  by 10.1.1.221 with QMQP; 17 Oct 2001 18:18:28 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO n6.groups.yahoo.com) (10.1.10.45)
  by mta1 with SMTP; 17 Oct 2001 18:18:27 -0000
X-eGroups-Return: Ti@fa-kuan.muc.de
Received: from [10.1.10.126] by n6.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Oct 2001 18:18:27 -0000
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 18:18:26 -0000
To: lojban@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Issachar
Message-ID: <9qki1i+p0l0@eGroups.com>
In-Reply-To: <01101611240419.02047@neofelis>
User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Length: 1399
X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster
X-Originating-IP: 62.104.218.30
From: "A.W.T." <Ti@fa-kuan.muc.de>
X-Yahoo-Profile: aolung

--- In lojban@y..., Pierre Abbat <phma@o...> wrote:
> "Issachar" is spelled in a funny way in Hebrew: it has two sin.bu, one of 
> which has no vowel at all, not even a schwa. Normally a double consonant 
> sound is indicated by writing the consonant once with a dagesh in it. As a 
> result, it is sometimes transliterated "Isaschar". Should it be {isaxar} or 
> {isasxar}?

You're right, the spelling is quite astonishing - kind of arbitrary like English or Gaelic orthography :-)
It's even more complicated as described by you: with three sin (sin+dagesh forte, sin).
(There are various spellings in Hebrew, anyway, and in addition, this is a proper name.)
Yet, one shouldn't go for the spelling but the pronunciation to create cmene. And it even doesn't matter whether
one pays attention to modern (ashkenasic) or semitic/sephardic pronunciation because in Lojban no double consonants
are allowed, also in cmene. So it only can be {.isaxar.}! Your - almost correct - transliteration "Isaschar" doesn't seem
correct; it should be _i(ss)sachar_ (although fully written: jod hireq, sin-dagesh forte, qames(!), sin, (no qames!), khaf, 
qames, resh).

Oh, Lord! Next correction - and not at all solving our problem - here's what I found in a special ancient-Hebrew dictionary: 
"issas-char (read: issachar) nom. prop. m. Isaschar, son of Jacob and stem".
Now what! Maybe .adam. can help.

.aulun.



