From xod@sixgirls.org Fri Oct 26 21:29:17 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: xod@reva.sixgirls.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 27 Oct 2001 04:29:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 60607 invoked from network); 27 Oct 2001 04:29:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 27 Oct 2001 04:29:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO reva.sixgirls.org) (64.152.7.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 27 Oct 2001 04:29:16 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by reva.sixgirls.org (8.11.6+3.4W/8.11.6) with ESMTP id f9R4TFf18816 for ; Sat, 27 Oct 2001 00:29:15 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 00:29:14 -0400 (EDT) To: "Lojban@Yahoogroups. Com" Subject: RE: [lojban] a construal of lo'e & le'e In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII From: Invent Yourself X-Yahoo-Profile: throwing_back_the_apple On Sat, 27 Oct 2001, And Rosta wrote: > I do want to wage war against excessive use of {le}. This is what I expected, and I look forward to another go-round of the veridicality debate which will necessarily arise, not so I can argue a position but so I can re-learn the theory. The idea of "mi claxu ro fipybirka" is intriguing, and illustrates a place where using a logical language actually has an impact on usage! Usually I wonder why anyone bothers with the appelation of "logical", since most sentences translate conceptually without alteration into English. Yet here is a case where the simple translation "I lack every fish fin" is interesting English. Doubtless it'll be > futile, but still it might be worthwhile. The problem is that people are > influenced by phonology when choosing 'default' forms, and hence 'le' and > 'lo' feel more default than lei/loi/le'e/lo'e. Yet for singleton categories, > 'le' and 'lo' are actually the least appropriate, involving redundant > quantification, and even lei/loi wrongly imply the relevance of a > distributive/collective distinction. So for singleton categories, le'e/lo'e > should be the default. At any rate, I myself will now be ditching {tu'odu'u} and > start using {lo'e du'u} instead. I think a singleton category is noted with le pa broda. For the trivial case of a set containing only one member, doesn't le'e reduce to le [pa]? What's the archetype of a singleton; what is the mean of a single event? -- "You can not stop us. We have this anthrax. You die now. Are you afraid? Death to America. Death to Israel. Allah is great."