From phma@oltronics.net Sun Oct 28 07:16:37 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: phma@ixazon.dynip.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 28 Oct 2001 15:16:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 37937 invoked from network); 28 Oct 2001 15:16:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by 10.1.1.220 with QMQP; 28 Oct 2001 15:16:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO neofelis.ixazon.lan) (216.189.29.241) by mta3 with SMTP; 28 Oct 2001 15:16:06 -0000 Received: by neofelis.ixazon.lan (Postfix, from userid 500) id 8FDC23C54F; Sun, 28 Oct 2001 10:09:12 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Reply-To: phma@oltronics.net To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] a construal of lo'e & le'e Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 10:09:10 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.2] References: <00ef01c15fac$0748a6e0$dab5003e@default> <20011028025343.A2376@twcny.rr.com> In-Reply-To: <20011028025343.A2376@twcny.rr.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <01102810091003.01141@neofelis> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: phma@ixazon.dynip.com From: Pierre Abbat On Sunday 28 October 2001 02:53, Rob Speer wrote: > Well, as I understand it, the thing which is unique to the da-series is > that they refer to the same thing each time they are used. Hence it > seems very unnecessary to me when "da" appears and is used only once. > > But now that I think of it, I suppose that wouldn't make a difference > here. Whatever pronoun it is _is_ only used once, but the concept the > sentence is trying to express maps two different instances of the > pronoun to each human. > > Let's start discussing a sentence which is less likely to be false. How > do you say "Every human has a head" without meaning that it is the same > head for every human? > > {ro remna cu ponse pa stedu}? It would be disturbing if this didn't > work... but what stops {pa stedu} from referring to the same head for > every person it is had by? It does work, but nothing stops it. {roda poi remna, pade poi stedu zo'u da ponse de} - "For every man, there is one head that he owns." It could be the same as someone else's head, or it could be different. > {pa stedu cu stedu ro remna}? > {pazu'i stedu ro remna}? (My understanding of zu'i is that this is > equivalent to the previous one.) > {[some other prosumti] stedu ro remna}? {pada poi stedu, rode poi remna zo'u da stedu de} - "There is one head such that it is everyone's head." > Of course, {stedu ro remna} would work, except there's nowhere to put > the number, meaning that everyone has some number of heads. This would > be more significant in the example with eyes. It does not work. {su'o da, rode poi remna zo'u da stedu de} - "There is at least one thing which is everyone's head." phma