From arosta@uclan.ac.uk Tue Oct 30 06:31:06 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: arosta@uclan.ac.uk X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 30 Oct 2001 14:31:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 2079 invoked from network); 30 Oct 2001 14:31:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by 10.1.1.221 with QMQP; 30 Oct 2001 14:31:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO com1.uclan.ac.uk) (193.61.255.3) by mta3 with SMTP; 30 Oct 2001 14:31:06 -0000 Received: from gwise-gw1.uclan.ac.uk by com1.uclan.ac.uk with SMTP (Mailer); Tue, 30 Oct 2001 14:07:31 +0000 Received: from DI1-Message_Server by gwise-gw1.uclan.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 30 Oct 2001 14:42:00 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.2 Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 14:41:49 +0000 To: jcowan Cc: lojban Subject: Re: [lojban] a construal of lo'e & le'e Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline From: And Rosta X-Yahoo-Profile: andjamin >>> John Cowan 10/29/01 07:39pm >>> #And Rosta wrote: #> Eh? What am I missing? -- "pa djacu cu du lo djacu" seems wholly true. # #Should have been "pa djacu cu du re djacu" Well, Jorge has shown why that's false. We need to change it in order for i= t=20 to make the point you want: lo djacu pa mei cu du lo djacu re mei and this I would say is TRUE. Whereas, lo remna pa mei cu du lo remna re mei is false. #> #(Oy, I curse the day that I decided to merge selma'o DU and GOhA.) #>=20 #> Why? # #Because tanru with du are useless, and it would have been more Zipfy #not to have to use "cu" in sentences like that. Indeed. But more generally, it would be interesting to get statistics on th= e frequency of cu compared to the frequency of tanru (or at least the frequ= ency of cu to avoid parsing as tanru). If I'd been designing the=20 language my gut feeling would have been to do all tanru by means of co, or,= better, by a co-analogue of be/bei/be'o. #> My point is that if you take it as an #> abstraction arrived at by averaging and selecting typical properties, #> then you get the distinction between having properties that [a] by defau= lt #> inherit to all instances of the abstraction (e.g. living in Africa), and= , on=20 #> the other hand, having properties that [b] don't by default inherit to a= ll=20 #> instances of the abstraction (e.g. being discussed by us). # #Ah. This sounds like the difference between a typical property of lions #and a property of the typical lion. [a] is both, but [b] is only the #latter. Just so. And for individuals, a typical property of John Cowan is the same = as a property of the typical John Cowan (tho of course the normal construal= of those phrases cries out for us to treat JC as a category with multiple= =20 members). --And.