From arosta@uclan.ac.uk Thu Nov 01 07:25:07 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: arosta@uclan.ac.uk X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 1 Nov 2001 15:25:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 97465 invoked from network); 1 Nov 2001 15:25:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by 10.1.1.221 with QMQP; 1 Nov 2001 15:25:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO com1.uclan.ac.uk) (193.61.255.3) by mta3 with SMTP; 1 Nov 2001 15:25:06 -0000 Received: from gwise-gw1.uclan.ac.uk by com1.uclan.ac.uk with SMTP (Mailer); Thu, 1 Nov 2001 15:01:38 +0000 Received: from DI1-Message_Server by gwise-gw1.uclan.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 01 Nov 2001 15:36:22 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.2 Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 15:35:42 +0000 To: lojbab , lojban Subject: Re: [lojban] a construal of lo'e & le'e Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline From: And Rosta X-Yahoo-Profile: andjamin >>> "Bob LeChevalier (lojbab)" 10/30/01 10:37pm >>> #At 02:01 AM 10/30/01 +0000, Jorge Llambias wrote: #> > (The last #> >round he said that {lo'e broda} was abstract #> #>Is {lo'e broda}, construed as "the typical", abstract? I think #>the prototype/myopic-singular is as abstract or not as is the typical. #>I have no problem with {lo'e tanxe cu dacti}, "boxes are material #>objects", and I suppose you wouldn't object to saying that "the #>typical box is a material object", so are they material objects #>or are they abstract? On the other hand, there certainly is #>abstraction going on when thinking of the generic/prototype/ #>myopically singular box, as much as in thinking of the average #>box. #> #> >but did not have properties that #> >no broda had!) #> #>I think it can have properties that no broda has by itself. #>For example, we can talk about it when not talking about #>any broda by itself. # #My attempt at formulating this, probably foredoomed, since I will use the= =20 #disputed words, is that lo'e broda is any object (which may or may not=20 #exist) that possesses the necessary properties "lo ka ce'u=20 #broda" (Something me wants to put "ce'uxipa ka ce'uxire broda", the=20 #necessary properties being the xipa, and the xire being the "da poi broda"= ,=20 #but I don't know how to do this clearly mixing the two languages). The thing that best fits this description you give is "lo ka'e broda". --And.