From ragnarok@pobox.com Sun Nov 04 08:08:00 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: raganok@intrex.net X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 4 Nov 2001 16:07:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 59646 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2001 16:07:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m11.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Nov 2001 16:07:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO intrex.net) (209.42.192.250) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Nov 2001 16:07:58 -0000 Received: from Craig [209.42.200.98] by intrex.net (SMTPD32-5.05) id A7DD3EC2009A; Sun, 04 Nov 2001 11:07:57 -0500 Reply-To: To: Subject: RE: [lojban] "I know you have a brother..." Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 11:08:13 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-eGroups-From: "Craig" From: "Craig" X-Yahoo-Profile: xreig >That takes care of what of the crucial sort was wrong with (6). All that is left now is that {djuno} takes propeositions {du'u}, not events >{nu}. And a worry about pulling references out of subordinate clauses with mental predicates (I believe that Sherlock Holmes is still >alive. He raises bees in Suffolk.) Which is a problem with the original - I know you have a brother; his name is Bill. But with your complaint about the prepositions: (8) mi djuno fi lenu zo'e bruna do .i zo bel. ra cmene I believe that the English expands to 'I know about your having a brother' just as easily as 'I know the fact that you have a brother' - though it could also be 'I know about your brotheredness' which could also be: (9) mi leka se bruna do djuno Which has the problem that there is then no referent for an anaphor, hence I propose: (10) mi leka se bruna ko'a goi zo'e ku do djuno .i zo bel. ko'a cmene Is ''leka se bruna ko'a'' legitamate, or is it two sumti ({leka se bruna} and {ko'a})? And is it better as 'ko'a goi zo'e' or 'ko'a goi da'?