From a.rosta@ntlworld.com Fri Nov 09 18:21:07 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: a.rosta@ntlworld.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 10 Nov 2001 02:21:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 72562 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2001 02:21:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m12.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Nov 2001 02:21:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta06-svc.ntlworld.com) (62.253.162.46) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Nov 2001 02:21:07 -0000 Received: from andrew ([62.253.84.24]) by mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP id <20011110022105.XOS17922.mta06-svc.ntlworld.com@andrew> for ; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 02:21:05 +0000 To: Subject: RE: [lojban] observatives & a construal of lo'e & le'e Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 02:20:02 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 In-Reply-To: From: "And Rosta" X-Yahoo-Profile: andjamin pc: > a.rosta@dtn.ntl.com writes: > What *would* you use? Remember that the selbri has to be cuktrodisi > (or "me la odisix") -- plain "la odisix" is a copout. > > Given your discussion, I would have thought that {la odisix} (yuck, > ptui!) would have been the perfect thing for the prototytpe and {me > la odisix} for "is a version of the Odyssey," so {lo me la odisix} > for "a version of the Odyssey" You want an individual for the > prototype and this is as close as you can get to that, and {me} is > just about perfect for "is a version of." Only {lai} could look > better than {la}, and there I fear we may have oversold the > mass-prototype, so that simple prototypes can't work anymore (without > a lot of reeducation -- which And might better be doing than trying > to make yet another prototype word in Lojban). {la odisix} is indeed the perfect thing, IMO, and {me la odisix} for versions of it. But this is no good in the present discussion, because it fails to generalize to other generics. For example, knowing that the generic Odyssey is {la odisix} does not tell us how to refer to the generic lion. Hence it is important that Lojbab find a way to refer to the generic Odyssey using "cuktrodisi". --And.