From jjllambias@hotmail.com Sat Nov 10 09:38:54 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jjllambias@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 10 Nov 2001 17:38:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 81017 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2001 17:38:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m8.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Nov 2001 17:38:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.241.75) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Nov 2001 17:38:54 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 09:38:54 -0800 Received: from 200.69.11.141 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 17:38:53 GMT X-Originating-IP: [200.69.11.141] To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Language of Logic and Logical Language. Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 17:38:53 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Nov 2001 17:38:54.0057 (UTC) FILETIME=[91293D90:01C16A0E] From: "Jorge Llambias" X-Yahoo-Profile: jjllambias2000 le nanmu poi claxu lo'e selnelrai skari cu cusku di'e >Would you mind elaborating on this? How does Lojban have an >obligatory singular-plural distinction? The usual claim is that Lojban doesn't have obligatory tense and number. This is true enough for tense. You have but to look at any Lojban text and chances are that most sentences won't be marked by tense. Tense is not obligatory and it is very easy to avoid. But when it comes to number... First, you cannot avoid having to choose an article/quantifier for most sumti. This choice is extremely intertwined with the singular-plural distinction. Then {le} and {lei} are the only gadri for which the singular-plural distinction could be avoided. But look at any Lojban text and try to find a bare {le broda} that refers to more than one broda, or a {lei broda} that refers to a single broda. You won't find them easily. So my contention is that to put on the same level non-obligatory tense in Lojban with non-obligatory number is misleading. mu'o mi'e xorxes _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp