From phma@oltronics.net Sat Nov 10 17:36:43 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: phma@ixazon.dynip.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 11 Nov 2001 01:36:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 70735 invoked from network); 11 Nov 2001 01:36:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m8.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Nov 2001 01:36:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO neofelis.ixazon.lan) (216.189.29.239) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Nov 2001 01:36:33 -0000 Received: by neofelis.ixazon.lan (Postfix, from userid 500) id 100543C54E; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 19:45:16 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Reply-To: phma@oltronics.net To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Language of Logic and Logical Language. Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 19:45:15 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.2] References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <0111101945150B.01185@neofelis> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: phma@ixazon.dynip.com From: Pierre Abbat On Saturday 10 November 2001 12:38, Jorge Llambias wrote: > The usual claim is that Lojban doesn't have obligatory > tense and number. This is true enough for tense. You have > but to look at any Lojban text and chances are that most > sentences won't be marked by tense. Tense is not obligatory > and it is very easy to avoid. But when it comes to number... > First, you cannot avoid having to choose an article/quantifier > for most sumti. This choice is extremely intertwined with > the singular-plural distinction. Then {le} and {lei} are the > only gadri for which the singular-plural distinction could be > avoided. But look at any Lojban text and try to find a bare > {le broda} that refers to more than one broda, or a {lei broda} > that refers to a single broda. You won't find them easily. > So my contention is that to put on the same level non-obligatory > tense in Lojban with non-obligatory number is misleading. I do it all the time. For example: Ruth 2:3. .i ko'e klama gi'e velvi'ucrepu le grustani [pl] le foldi [sg] le crepu [pl] Ezekiel 4:15. .i ko'a cusku lu .e'a loi bakni kalci cu basti loi remna kalci lenu ko zbasu le nanba li'u mi {lenu zbasu} is plural here (he ate it for 390 days, and must have baked it many times). I'm not sure whether {le nanba} should be {lei nanba} here. Alice 5:49. .i lu nandu fa lenu kurji le sovda kei po'onai sei la tcacpi cu cusku mu'omi'e pier.